And who has a better economy yesterday, today and forever? I don't think we need to take any economic lessons from Europe.

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Jason
Lynn Swann 06'

"Individualism is absent when other peoples' standards, not reality and reason, are ones primary guide."

To recap, in the 80's, Iraqi's liked Saddam as did we. In the 90's, he stopped killing Iranian's, Good, and started attacking our allies, Kuait, bad. Times change. Today I like HughE. Tomorrow I might not. :wink:

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Jason
Lynn Swann 06'

"Individualism is absent when other peoples' standards, not reality and reason, are ones primary guide."

blob, that's besides the point. we don't have a better economy because we spend our money on bombs. where we used to spend our money on great things (
30th street, quality materials, etc) we now spend it on war and welfare. blob, what the hell happened? I thought they got you you too. nothing is forever. that attitude will do more disservice to the country than anything else. if the gangs of NY showed us nothign else, it's that it is very american to oppose the draft and rich men's wars.

Obviously! :roll:


What did he use to attack the Kurds?

Could you please define unilateral for me. I seem to be confused. I thought it meant solo, alone. Silly me, I didn't know it meant including France, Germany and Russia.


You're insane.

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Jason
Lynn Swann 06'

"Individualism is absent when other peoples' standards, not reality and reason, are ones primary guide."

I agree with el. The economy isn't stronger here because of our bombs, but despite them. Europe's cities totally blow ours away however in every aspect of urban life, because they spent on rail transport and things that improve life in cities and towns. I lived in Heidelberg, Germany for a few years. While home for a visit once, I was riding on the Frankford El one day. The view of Kensington Ave and Front St were stunning from up there. I guess similar to Dresden in 1945. I never really noticed before I was in Europe, but it occured to me that even though we won that war, when you compared our cities with Germany's you would swore we lost.
Oh, and yeah Zog, I do think you are snowed. You need to turn off Rush and Fox once in awhile.

Ditto to you Geno. You need to stop believing everything you hear from Brokaw and the NYTimes and start thinking for yourself for once. I know it's hard to initiate any original thought after so many years of following, but nows as good a time as any to start.

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Jason
Lynn Swann 06'

"Individualism is absent when other peoples' standards, not reality and reason, are ones primary guide."

Zog,

The attacks against the Kurds were atrocities, but that was back in the 1980s. And who gave Saddam many of his weapons(and the Afghanis many of theirs)?? The Reagan administration. Well, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree now does it?

The disarmament and inspection process was moving along according to most of the world except Mr. Bush and a few of his congressional cronies. Then when he decided to attack, a lot of the pols jumped on the bandwagon fearing political fallout from possibly being painted as un-supportive of our troops.

This was an unnecessary war used by Mr. Bush largely as an opportunity to promote his personal, political, and business interests.

The war was essentially unilateral, because the vast majority of nations- both in the U.N. and even NATO, (with the possible exception of a handful of two-bit banana republics hoping for some $$$ out of the deal) were AGAINST the war and believed, justifiably that the disarmament process was working, and Saddam's regime did not pose the imminent threat that Bush was alleging it did.

So I say again, where are the Weapons of Mass Destruction?? You mean to tell me that they have not been able to find them in the nine plus months that our forces have occupied Iraq?? Get real.

Look at the facts.

Peace,

J

peace,
the bio weapons did comef rom us. many of their weapons are kalishnokov's, scuds, etc which are certainly not american weapons. at any rate, geno is in the military an has been to many of these places himself. I have never watched brokaw or read the ny times with any irregularity. in fact, as little as possible. with that said, i also tend to avoid fox as well and esp. Rush. I watched Jesse's america on sat. night which was pretty cool. he was wearing a free tomy chong shirt. anyways, let's not be eoverly optimistic abotu our own economy. paying attention to GDP figures and employment stats is quite misleading. there is a distrubing trend of outsourcing to other countries. why is this happening? that is worth asking. is it globalization's fault? it can't be since tha is a process and not something that can be blamed. globalization is unmasking our weaknesses though. to me the answer looks obvious, we can't compete b/c of costs. most would say sweatshops, etc. but that is only part of the story. I woudl understand that many people that have never studied econ or never dealt with capital investments might underestimate the advantages it might bring, btu the simple fact is, you cannot concentrate on such arguments. sweatshops is code lingo, to many , for wanting to ban competition not protecting anybody from exploitation. and 100 people at 10 cents an hour doesnt' mean it will putanyone out of business since we ahve the money to fully mechanize production to an extent unimaginable. cheap labor is their comparative advantage. before i go any further off topic, I mean merely to point out that our economy is fundamentally unstable. we have many of the same ideas as the europeans with regards to that. bush is not a free market patron, he is a crony capitalist. halliburton receives contracts b/c it is politically connected, that much is true. what democrats have a tough time admitting is that their party is equally corrupt. keep your eye on exchange rates. the conomy is under the influence of a massive influx of currency. all experiemtns with paper currency have endedin disaster. the disaster is amlost always the same, the printing presses get out of control and the government cannot stop the monster it created. this is true all the way back to france's first fiat currency in the 18th century. back then it was backed by land taken from the church, and later, nothing in particular. tehy printed more ad more. the country was overrun by speculators shortly before monetary collapse. not saying it will happen here, but don't be so cocky as to say we will forever be the powerhouse. history has a habit of making a mockery of such sentiments.

Here is an article and some links on what the U.S. government and its agencies did in the 1980's to supply Iraq with dangerous biological agents and materials:

other articles:

http://zena.secureforum.com/interact...fm?itemID=5141

http://www.technologyreports.net/sec...articleID=1005

Yeah right. He kicked out inspectors in 1998. If Clinton had any leadership skills he would have gone in then and there. If the UN had any balls they would have done the same. 12 years of playing with the UN is not progression.

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Jason
Lynn Swann 06'

"Individualism is absent when other peoples' standards, not reality and reason, are ones primary guide."