Agreed. But from Mugabe's neighbors point view, weapons that go to Zimbabwe will strenghten the government and this will lead to stability and not a refuge crisis. At this point mid-men in the neighboring countries are probably making money on arms shipments and not of helping refuges. For the governments they probably get some money from arms and refugees would be considered a drain.

Nobody has to convince me these opinions are wrong.

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*Apathy rules

*unless apathy doesn't rule

[quote=MarketStEl;804083]
As for the first paragraph,

"...in Zimbabwe the British and the former Smith government set the standard for injustice and Mugabe for people living in he is probably not so outrageous in comparison."

well, if ever there were a more dramatic illustration of why two wrongs don't make a right, I can't think of it. (And to address an objection once raised by Mary J. Blige, it doesn't even make it even here.)

Again I am in agreement with you regarding 2 rights vs. wrong, etc. I was thinking more along these lines from the Declaration of Independence: "...all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." In that the people of Zimbabwe have grown accustomed to oppression which pre-dates Mugabe. While we can clearly see the injustice, in Zimbabwe there are probably some people that have seen worse.

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*Apathy rules

*unless apathy doesn't rule

Leading members of Zimbabwe's opposition are on the run or under attack, yet President Robert Mugabe was campaigning on Tuesday, determined to hold a presidential run-off in which he will be the only candidate.

Mr Mugabe has been defiant in the face of international condemnation. His plan to go ahead with the vote appeared to stem less from a desire to validate his rule than to humiliate Movement for Democratic Change leader Morgan Tsvangirai, who has been holed up in the Dutch Embassy in Harare since announcing on Sunday that he would not compete in Friday's presidential run-off.

Mr Mugabe, a vigorous 84, launched a rally on Tuesday by kicking a soccer ball in front of thousands of cheering supporters.

Mr Tsvangirai's party said the chairwoman of one of its provincial organisations was seriously injured by alleged Mugabe loyalists who also looted her home in a northern region that independent human rights groups say has seen some of the worst violence.

The party also said the rural home of its national organising secretary was attacked early on Tuesday by Mugabe loyalists in military uniform. The party said the official's 80-year-old father was beaten and two other relatives were shot in the legs.

Mr Tsvangirai said the onslaught of state-sponsored violence against his party made the balloting impossible. George Sibotshiwe, a spokesman for Mr Tsvangirai, said the politician had received a tip that soldiers were on the way to his home Sunday, after he had announced he was pulling out of the run-off. Mr Sibotshiwe would not reveal the source of the tip, and said the soldiers' intentions were unclear.

But "the moment you have soldiers coming your way, you just run for your life", he said. "The only way he can protect himself is to go to an embassy."

Mr Sibotshiwe was speaking from Angola after fleeing Zimbabwe earlier this week. He saw armed men approaching a safe house where he had been staying in Zimbabwe, and fears arrest. Mr Tsvangirai's second in command, Tendai Biti, is jailed in Zimbabwe on treason charges, which can carry the death penalty.

Police spokesman Wayne Bvudzijena said on Monday that police had taken 39 people from the opposition headquarters as part of an investigation into political violence. Opposition spokesman Nelson Chamisa had said most of the people taken away were women and children seeking refuge after fleeing state-sponsored political violence.

Police spokesman Wayne Bvudzijena said on Monday that police had taken 39 people from the opposition headquarters as part of an investigation into political violence. Opposition spokesman Nelson Chamisa had said most of the people taken away were women and children seeking refuge after fleeing state-sponsored political violence.

Mr Tsvangirai told the Dutch national broadcaster NOS radio that the Dutch ambassador had spoken to the Zimbabwean government and received assurances there was no threat. Mr Tsvangirai said he might leave the embassy on Tuesday or Wednesday. But the US ambassador to Zimbabwe, James McGee, said Mr Tsvangirai should be wary of government assurances, saying: "Right now, I don't have a lot of faith in anything this government says."


http://ukpress.google.com/article/AL...b9TXh1Sn0mmZgA

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'We must be very tough when dealing with a ruthless criminal like him'

Christelle Terreblanche
Pretoria News
6/25/2008

The ANC has for the first time thrown down the gauntlet to Zimbabwe's President Robert Mugabe saying that the withdrawal of the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) from the elections "was an indication of the depth of the political crisis" in his country.

Following the cue of regional leaders, the ANC yesterday rejected the possibility of free and fair presidential elections in Zimbabwe and called for a dialogue between the contending parties.

It unequivocally blamed the Zimbabwean government and ruling party for the current violence.

But the ANC government's "quiet diplomacy" stance in the unfolding crisis until now was again defended in parliament, with Finance Minister Trevor Manuel telling MPs that those who want stronger action against Mugabe should "form an army and attack" Zimbabwe themselves.



The ANC said after its national working committee meeting that while it had been sceptical about a run-off election between Mugabe and Tsvangirai, it had "deferred judgement" to the leadership of the Southern African Development Community (SADC).

Following SADC members' condemnation of the violence, intimidation and terror sown in the run-up to Friday's polls, however, the party said that it was "convinced that free and fair elections are not possible".

"The ANC cannot be indifferent to the flagrant violation of every principle of democratic governance", the party said.

"In a society that is already highly polarised, a run-off election will only serve to widen the divisions.

"The very legitimacy of the run-off has already been severely compromised by the actions of both Zanu-PF militants and those of state officials who do not even conceal their partiality in favour of the governing party."

The ANC said there could be no solution "except through a dialogue in earnest among all the political players in Zimbabwe, involving the people of that country".

The South African government's attempts to bring about change within the SADC framework, however, again came under opposition fire at parliament yesterday, with the Democratic Alliance (DA) and Freedom Front Plus (FF-Plus) both calling for stronger action against Mugabe.

FF-Plus chief whip Corne Mulder charged that South Africa's "policy of appeasement of the Mugabe regime" had resulted in "a negative no-win situation".

Mugabe should be dealt with as the dictator he is, and "the pseudo election as the covert coup that it is" and African leaders should not recognise Mugabe's illegal government after Friday, he said.

DA spokesperson for sport, Donald Lee, welcomed the courage of Cricket SA's decision to suspend its relationship with the Zimbabwe cricket association.

He said by contrast the government could "no longer hide behind the failed quiet diplomacy while Mugabe is killing our brothers and sisters".

"We must be very tough when dealing with a ruthless criminal like him.

"South Africa must take the lead in isolating Mugabe's illegitimate regime," Lee's motion stated.

Responding to Lee, Manuel said the house should invite Lee "to form an army and go and attack Zimbabwe; that's what he would like to do … and see who will follow the honourable Lee into war".

Do I Hear The War Drums Beating? sl

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_i...0706904C775246

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I'm glad to see that elements of the ANC will no longer defer to Mugabe's historic role from 25 years ago and are willing to call him the dictator he is. Pretty sure that going to war is not the solution but for rhetoric, I'm glad for the bluntness.

It makes me sad every time I see the misleading title of this thread pop up.

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Barack Obama on security, Iraq and Afghanistan. We need a Commander in Chief who knows the differences between Shii'a and Sunni.

War is not the best solution. But like most dictators Mugabe will have to be removed by force.
So I dont see any other way but war.

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Mugabe has already declared war on anyone who stands in this way.

Keeping the victims of his violence unarmed and helpless is no virtue.

The Observer

What might happen next.

International intervention

Although Mugabe's support is eroding among his African neighbours, there is no appetite for military intervention. But UN rules state that, if a country is unwilling or unable to carry out its responsibility to prevent abuse of its own citizens, that responsibility must be transferred to the international community. Sanctions could be imposed on, for example, currency trading, but that would hurt and alienate an already impoverished population.

Will it happen?

Possibly. The strong signs of disquiet from other African leaders are unprecedented.

Civil war

Outraged by a second election apparently rigged in favour of Mugabe, a popular uprising takes place against the regime, which would be ferociously resisted. Alternatively, Mugabe and his 'war veterans' have promised to return to guerrilla warfare if they lose the election.

Will it happen?

Judging by Zimbabwe's recent history, it is unlikely. Zimbabweans are generally peaceful people and have no access to weapons. They have been beaten and bruised for years, yet the overwhelming desire is for revenge through the ballot, not by the bullet.

National unity government

The MDC forms a joint administration. This solution was first mooted by South Africa's Thabo Mbeki, who discussed the idea with both sides earlier this month. Mugabe formed a unity government with Joshua Nkomo in the 1980s. Senior members of both Zanu-PF and the MDC initially said the only point of contention was who would assume overall leadership. However, all Mugabe's men have moved to assure him they would not do business with the MDC leader.

Will it happen?

The violence makes it unlikely that the MDC would share power with Mugabe.

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Pres. Mugabe Carries on Amid Widespread Condemnation, Sanctions
By MIKE LEE
June 28, 2008


Who can free the people of Zimbabwe from a dictator who has staged-managed his own re-election — again, and whose government thugs and their supporters, in this campaign alone, murdered at least 90 political opponents, including children, injured 10,000 Zimbabweans and drove another 200,000 from their homes?

The presidential run-off Friday in Zimbabwe, in which President Robert Mugabe was the sole candidate, has been denounced by Western countries after reports of physical force aimed at voters who failed to cast their ballots for Mugabe and after opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai dropped out last Sunday to avoid more violence against his supporters.

"They said they were forced to go and vote, early in the morning," said Nelson Virri, a Zimbabwean refugee, speaking in South Africa. "The soldiers and the police and the youth of ZANU-PF [Zimbabwe African National Union-Patriotic Front, Mugabe's party] were around the village pushing them to go and vote in the polling stations."

Larry Cox, executive director of Amnesty USA, told ABC News, "I don't know if there is a way to bring [Mugabe] down."

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/story?id=5269541&page=1

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And so it was that later
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turned a whiter shade of pale


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