Well, let's see - did the Wawa previsouly engage in armed hostilities with my kid? Did they sign an armistice with my kid to end said hostilities and then proceed to violate it almost continuously for more than a decade? Was the Wawa warned by the UN so often that there were 17 resolutions on dealing with it? Would my kid's resumption of armed hostilities with this Wawa end in him dying if he failed? Would he actually be stealing nothing from this Wawa when he held it up? Would he be holding it up in such a way as to avoid civilian casualties at the Wawa? Would he not only not steal, but give money to the Wawa? Would he build schools and infrastructure for the Wawa? Would it be the case that once he started the hold up, right or wrong, that not finishing the hold up could leave Wawa a shambles?

Brilliant analogy - you've made me see things more clearly now. I will certainly hope for as much failure as possible. I will also lie about and exaggerate US misbehavior in the area, so that I can help that failure on the propaganda front. Thanks again.

So what you're saying is that the current war is justifiable by just-war theory?
That's the most logical admission you've made to date, Mark.

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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? - Psalm 27:1

You know, if you're going to keep trotting out this mantra of the UN doing this and that, shouldn't you note occasionally that the UN heard Bush's case for war with Iraq and failed to act on it? In other words, you lost this argument before the only entity with standing to hear it.

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"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterton

The war never met just-war theory. Continuing to prosecute a war whose rationale was specious compounds the crime.

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"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterton

Well, I mentioned it as corresponding with my claim that Iraq was troublesome. The UN, and not unanimously, simply wanted an 18th resolution. But you can have that point if you wish, it was one in a series of many that could have been many more. Your analogy fails.

Let's see:
Restore justice, check (unless you think there was something even vaguely approaching "justice" under Saddam Hussein).
Last resort, check (17 UNSC resolutions, ignored, economic sanctions being openly ignored by U.N. etc.)
Proportional response, check (measured, tactical, conventional response)
What are we missing here, Mark?
Actually, after failing to act on the endless resolutions, and then failing to accept the clear cut case for war, the U.N. lost their tenuous standing to have a role in the decision.

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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? - Psalm 27:1

100,000 dead, caused by the U.S.'s war of choice? (Ezra thinks a million, but I'll go with the more conservative estimate.) Those of Saddam's and Bush's ilk can evaluate the deaths of thousands and declare the result worthwhile, but I won't join you.

You're beating a dead horse about Iraq, Tree. Most Americans know this war was a mistake and aren't inclined to pour more resources into trying to make a "success" out of it. You're on the wrong side of history.

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"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterton

Unfortunately, the math's against you unless you consider a Yemeni scumbag who signed up with al Queda in Iraq and got gunned down by the Iraqi Security Forces while setting up an IED to be the same thing as a kid who was chained up and mauled to death by a couple of wild dogs while his parents were forced to watch because Uday Hussain thought the father might be a political agitator.
Is that what you think Mark?

You're trying to change the subject because you carelessly posted that passage about a just war that directly applied to OIF.

Facts are stubborn things, aren't they?

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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? - Psalm 27:1

Which is it?

You love the Iraqi people and want to protect them from Evil or you hate them and want to slaughter them for decades to come?

You can't have it both ways.

Oh, and could you post some videos of the wild dogs? You know how much I like puppy videos.

You sound like a very caring person... you must be so eager to get into Darfur or N. Korea.... lots of wild dogs there too.

Wow, and they say Conservatives see things in black and white.

Here's your problem, ezra: You don't view people as individuals, but as part of a monolithic group. (This is why your fellow liberals often draw conclusions like black people are too dumb to compete with whites, or that no one can be trusted with guns.)

See, Iraqis are human beings and as such, deserve life, dignity and self determination. That's what we're providing them.
Unfortunately, some people would like to deny them that and do things like blow up markets, kidnap and torture people, and tape kids to chairs and burn them alive in front of their families.
We're helping the Iraqi Security Force protect the public and wipe out the bad people until they can do it themselves.

Make sense?

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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? - Psalm 27:1