Saudi court ups punishment for gang-rape VICTIM - Page 2 - PhillyBlog

BeckyJ · #11 (**permalink**) 11-18-2007, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAdlerian

Come now, you aren't a man unless you can control yourself.

At the prison, I advised sex offenders to consider suicide if they had the urge to re-offend. That would be a final heroic act in a war with the self.

I'm guessing that To Philly is indeed NOT a real man (I'm guessing troll), otherwise he would not be making such ridiculous assertions. Doesn't appear to have evolved yet.

To Philly · #12 (**permalink**) 11-18-2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeckyJ

I'm guessing that To Philly is indeed NOT a real man (I'm guessing troll), otherwise he would not be making such ridiculous assertions. Doesn't appear to have evolved yet.

don't even get me started on evolution, but thats a diff. topic. all i'm saying is women/girls should be careful and dont put themself in harms way. just like i wouldn't go walking around in north philly after dark

Colin P. Varga · #13 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 01:47 AM

I put this on here because of my own outrage and because the US is very close to Saudi Arabia. However, I also thought that the punishment this victim is receiving has an echo of something we practice in this country, Blame the Victim. Although, I didn't expect to see it come out in the 2nd message on this thread.

As I have sat on a few juries I have seen some bias in women on a jury believing testimony from a woman more readily than some men. The male bias in a Muslim court is institutionalized, but I believe the same type of bias exists in our courts. While a rape victim doesn’t have to worry about being sentenced here, getting a conviction from a jury is an up-hill battle. I think more so than other crimes. In a trial that had a rape charge where I was an alternate both sides had to emphasize language and how something was said, and what exact constitutes a “threat”, and how that can be interpreted differently.

To Philly · #14 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin P. Varga

I put this on here because of my own outrage and because the US is very close to Saudi Arabia. However, I also thought that the punishment this victim is receiving has an echo of something we practice in this country, Blame the Victim. Although, I didn't expect to see it come out in the 2nd message on this thread.

As I have sat on a few juries I have seen some bias in women on a jury believing testimony from a woman more redily than some men. The male bias in a Muslim court is institutionalized, but I believe the same type of bias exists in our courts. While a rape victim doesn’t have to worry about being sentenced here, getting a conviction from a jury is an up-hill battle. I think more so than other crimes. In a trial that had a rape charge where I was an alternate both sides had to emphasize language and how something was said, and what exact constitutes a “threat”, and how that can be interpreted differently.

I'm not tying to blame the victim, just saying sometimes she could have been moe careful and not put herself in that situation.

Colin P. Varga · #15 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by To Philly

I'm not tying to blame the victim, just saying sometimes she could have been moe careful and not put herself in that situation.

Everyone should be careful, but women are raped by friends, family, priests, etc. These are people who can be trusted. What could some raped by one of these people do to be more careful?

To Philly · #16 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin P. Varga

Everyone should be careful, but women are raped by friends, family, priests, etc. These are people who can be trusted. What could some raped by one of these people do to be more careful?

what she wears, for one thing. and not acting too flirty or getting herself in situation where she's one on one with cetain types of guys

Towelie · #17 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 01:14 PM

If I am ever in the same situation as the Duke Lacrosse Team. I will be glad that we are innocent until proven guilty. Or "uphill battle" as someone stated earlier.

Tannhauser · #18 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin P. Varga

As I have sat on a few juries I have seen some bias in women on a jury believing testimony from a woman more readily than some men. The male bias in a Muslim court is institutionalized, but I believe the same type of bias exists in our courts. While a rape victim doesn’t have to worry about being sentenced here, getting a conviction from a jury is an up-hill battle.

It's nice that you bring such extensive anecdotal evidence to back your assertion. Degrade your own country based on sitting in on one case.

Perhaps, you're talking about another country? The U.S. has a conviction rate <B>10 TIMES</B> higher than the rest of the world. FAR higher than England, Japan, Italy, Greece, etc.

Maybe you should look at child custody in divorce cases. Why the shocking disparity favoring women over equally capable men? Why the disparity in awarding support to custodial parents? Why are fathers still forced to provide support when it's proven they are not the biological fathers to children?

You should examine facts rather than let you heartstrings get pulled.

Colin P. Varga · #19 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Towelie

If I am ever in the same situation as the Duke Lacrosse Team. I will be glad that we are innocent until proven guilty. Or "uphill battle" as someone stated earlier.

What I learned while on that jury was that charging someone with rape is fairly easy, but the conviction is difficult, and that is as it should be.

drewrob23 · #20 (**permalink**) 11-23-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeckyJ

Yeah, cuz meeting somebody you've known most of your life, went to school with, and are getting back your photos from is a definite invitation to be raped.

The point here is that the Saudi court is punishing her for BEING RAPED. What part of that absolute violation of human rights (she is now receiving 200 lashes [getting whipped] and time in jail because the men in this case committed a crime) and complete injustice do you see as deserved? This is your friendly Islamic fundamentalist shari'a law at work. This is what people have been known to chalk up to "cultural differences." Inhumane and misogynistic does not even begin to cover it.

That's wrong. The woman and man where punished for being together unchaperoned. I def. don't agree with her punishment, but as some people would observe, that's Saudi law. Just like America has some crazy laws, so do other countries, some more heinous than others.

From a story I read elsewhere, the woman meet up with her friend, who had some pictures of her. She was getting married and it wasn't appropriate for this man to have any pictures of her I would guess. I wonder why she didn't have a family member of some sort accompany her. I'm sure she had to know that it was risky for her to meet this man.

I thought with Sharia law, that the men responsible for the rape should have at least been castrated, if not put to death. I'm not sure how Muslims feel about homosexuality. There is def. a biased here in the courts, but can anybody say it's really that different from American law and culture?

At least she wasn't in Afganhistan and brought these charges up, where she could have been raped again by a Sharia council.

Another great American ally.