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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2007, 06:45 PM
AMonte AMonte is offline
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Originally Posted by frankdialogue View Post
..HListen, you need to read a book called the 'Energy Non-Crisis' by Lindsey Williams, who was a chaplain on the original ARCO/Alaska Prudhoe Bay project/pipeline...there is plenty of oil up there that has not even been touched...also, there are many viable energy alternatives, including bio-diesel, but the 'big corporations' have no
interest in developing any of these alternate technologies.

First of all, executive privileges or not, the guy was a Chaplain, not an oil executive, analyst or anything like that. Without reading this (I'll look more into it...not being a total nay-sayer) it sounds like he wrote the book while listening through the door of the conference room with a paper cup, ideologies already in-tow. Secondly, this is all from 1980...things change, especially globally. Thirdly, you can produce bio-diesel on your own. You don't need a corporation. You need a fast-food restaurant and this...(http://www.freedomfuelamerica.com/), so the conspiracy thing doesn't work with me.

Also, while I'm nearly 100,000% positive that the people running the oil companies are not all altar boys, I have a hard time believing that they'd all throw their country under the bus for another buck or two.

If they can spearhead alternative technologies, then why wouldn't they as multi-billion dollar corporations? How much oil actually goes towards gasoline versus everything else we use? Hell, even if we stop burning it as fuel, we'll still have a need for oil in textiles and lubrications. Plus, this is all considering alternative fuels have answers for air travel, trains, heavier fuels for ships and our military, otherwise, we'll still need a ton of oil. A switch to alternative fuels isn't going to wipe out an oil company, so I have a hard time believing that they'd hush-up the researchers just to save their jobs or a profit, when so much more money can be made on it. It seems counter-intuitive--especially based on the common thinking that the oil companies are comprised of just greedy fat-cats--that an oil company would stifle new, alternative technologies and it's research and not to be the first one to introduce, sell and use it.

A profit's a profit.

Besides that, America's best kept secret is published in a book? And no one else knows about this? No one questions this? We're in a war with the most oil-rich region in the world--some say for their oil--but no one called attention to this guy's book? We're being charged $2.85 a gallon for gasoline, but no one's going to call this book out until we're over $3? We could drastically change our foreign policy and the face of the entire political world based on this book, but no one else knows about it?

Just seems like a stretch, you know?
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Old 11-12-2007, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by AMonte View Post
It doesn't matter who our #1 and #2 importers are because A) I'd hardly call Mexico a friend these days and B) numbers 3 to 5 on that list are Saudi Arabia, Nigeria and Venezuela.

Why can't people understand the concept of hoping for the best but expecting the worst? The Strategic Oil Reserve is the best we can do? We should be drilling for our own oil in order to hasten energy independence. I'm not saying we should burn more, or ignore cleaner technologies, but it's not like the cure for fossil fuels is around the corner, so until then, why be beholden to anyone? At the same time, the whole world is making a play for more oil, but we're sitting smug in neat-o idealistic visions of never needing oil again by Hillary's 2nd month in office. Come on now.

How many times has this bitten us in the ass and how many times will we continue to let it? Everyone hopes that Iran has built 3,000 centrifuges for power or peaceful "deterrence", yet no one wants to expect them to follow through with their promises of proliferation? Everyone hopes that it's just people who are down on their luck and looking to feed and educate their children that are crossing over from Mexico, but no one expects that this same back door will be exploited by our enemies? Everyone hoped that a storm like Katrina would graze by us, but no one expected it to be one of the worst disasters ever at 7' below sea level on the Gulf of Mexico? Everyone hoped the housing bubble would just shrink on it's own, but no one expected it to explode in our faces like every other economic cycle driven by greed has?

So we're going to sit here, and hope to not need oil in the future but not expect that when we need it bad enough, the whole world will hold us hostage for it? All for what? Environmental friendliness? A friendliness that apparently only WE see a need for? How many trees has China planted during their industrial blitz? What has Iran done in their blitz for nuclear "power" to cancel out their carbon footprint created while building their plants?

Could somebody please wake the f- up and realize that we're just about the only ones out there trying to make nice with everyone? I'm not saying let's start a war with everyone, but damn, let's watch our own asses for once, eh?
First, because energy independence plans should not revolve around finding more oil on our borders. It is a band aid and not a fix.

Second, call Mexico what you want, but the fact of the matter is that two of the three largest importers are on our borders which significantly changes the picture than if they were in the Middle east.

Personally, I am ok with the rising energy prices due to cost of oil because it will quicken the switch to other energy sources. The United States economy is greatly dependent on cheap energy and at some break point corporations will push to better sources. (I am pro-nuke, for disclaimer.)
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Old 11-12-2007, 07:47 PM
jizay jizay is offline
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Originally Posted by raider.adam View Post
The United States economy is greatly dependent on cheap energy and at some break point corporations will push to better sources. (I am pro-nuke, for disclaimer.)
But it doesn't happen so quickly because any firm whose operations are sensitive to oil prices hedges by purchasing energry funds, oil futures, etc. so that if they do it right, they make about the same no matter what happens to oil prices.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2007, 07:50 PM
frankdialogue frankdialogue is offline
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Originally Posted by AMonte View Post
First of all, executive privileges or not, the guy was a Chaplain, not an oil executive, analyst or anything like that. Without reading this (I'll look more into it...not being a total nay-sayer) it sounds like he wrote the book while listening through the door of the conference room with a paper cup, ideologies already in-tow. Secondly, this is all from 1980...things change, especially globally. Thirdly, you can produce bio-diesel on your own. You don't need a corporation. You need a fast-food restaurant and this...(http://www.freedomfuelamerica.com/), so the conspiracy thing doesn't work with me.

Also, while I'm nearly 100,000% positive that the people running the oil companies are not all altar boys, I have a hard time believing that they'd all throw their country under the bus for another buck or two.

If they can spearhead alternative technologies, then why wouldn't they as multi-billion dollar corporations? How much oil actually goes towards gasoline versus everything else we use? Hell, even if we stop burning it as fuel, we'll still have a need for oil in textiles and lubrications. Plus, this is all considering alternative fuels have answers for air travel, trains, heavier fuels for ships and our military, otherwise, we'll still need a ton of oil. A switch to alternative fuels isn't going to wipe out an oil company, so I have a hard time believing that they'd hush-up the researchers just to save their jobs or a profit, when so much more money can be made on it. It seems counter-intuitive--especially based on the common thinking that the oil companies are comprised of just greedy fat-cats--that an oil company would stifle new, alternative technologies and it's research and not to be the first one to introduce, sell and use it.

A profit's a profit.

Besides that, America's best kept secret is published in a book? And no one else knows about this? No one questions this? We're in a war with the most oil-rich region in the world--some say for their oil--but no one called attention to this guy's book? We're being charged $2.85 a gallon for gasoline, but no one's going to call this book out until we're over $3? We could drastically change our foreign policy and the face of the entire political world based on this book, but no one else knows about it?

Just seems like a stretch, you know?
AMonte: Our foreign policy is not made by us or for our better interests...find out who 'owns' the oil on the North Slope...is it the US Government?...is it a company or consortium of companies?...
are these American companies?...who owns the stock in those companies?...are they Americans or as they say, 'globalists', those
who owe allegiance to no country?...answer these questions, and you will determine who dictates our foreigh policy...and yes, they
would throw all of us under a 'big bus' for 'a buck or two'...as you
say, a 'buck's a buck'.
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jizay View Post
But it doesn't happen so quickly because any firm whose operations are sensitive to oil prices hedges by purchasing energry funds, oil futures, etc. so that if they do it right, they make about the same no matter what happens to oil prices.
Quite a bit of a stretch claiming that all (even a majority) of American businesses invest their profits into energy funds.

And even if so, as energy costs go up, so does cost of living which drives up salaries. I highly doubt investing into energy portfolios is sufficient to counteract the increased cost of business, not to mention the amount necessary to invest.
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Old 11-13-2007, 12:09 AM
jizay jizay is offline
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Quite a bit of a stretch claiming that all (even a majority) of American businesses invest their profits into energy funds.

And even if so, as energy costs go up, so does cost of living which drives up salaries. I highly doubt investing into energy portfolios is sufficient to counteract the increased cost of business, not to mention the amount necessary to invest.
Believe as you wish, but large firms always have a hedge division. If their business relies heavily on oil prices, that's what they hedge against. I'm only throwing it out there as a factor that slows down businesses from adopting short run costly changes that reduce consumption when price goes up. I'm quite confident it's true.
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Old 11-13-2007, 02:01 AM
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Believe as you wish, but large firms always have a hedge division. If their business relies heavily on oil prices, that's what they hedge against. I'm only throwing it out there as a factor that slows down businesses from adopting short run costly changes that reduce consumption when price goes up. I'm quite confident it's true.
Large firms. The majority of businesses in the United States are sole proprietors (or is it sole proprietors employ the most people in the US ... either way they are a largely significant number that probably don't have hedge funds).
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Old 11-13-2007, 02:13 AM
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There's one sure way to get the popularity of fuel-efficiency to skyrocket across the globe.


Reprice oil contracts in euros.


If you do that, Europeans for starters will get a HUGE oil price shock, because they're buying oil contracts in dollars, and to them, oil is staying relatively at the same price. Even though euros are gaining in value against the dollar, the price of oil goes up at the same rate since the dollar is declining and the intrinsic value of oil outside of speculation is slowly increasing.

So Europeans don't see any reason to cut back on consumption, and at home it is driving up inflation.


I say we cut our dominance at NYMEX and stop pricing the contracts in our currency. By this simple act, you will see a HUGE increase in gas prices all over Europe, and a smaller increase here at home. It will be about the same shock here in the US as Katrina was and it will re-ignite more interest in FEVs.


Congress should renew the FEV tax credit and roll that up to a dollar for dollar tax credit at the MARKET PRICE of the vehicle, all of which can be redeemed in the tax year in which the vehicle is purchased, and also allow taxpayers to 1040X their old returns to take advantage of the credit.

If you can redirect the income tax you owe the IRS as an underpayment to buy a new FEV car, wouldn't you want to buy the car instead of flushing that money down the drain to the IRS?
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:44 AM
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There's one sure way to get the popularity of fuel-efficiency to skyrocket across the globe.


Reprice oil contracts in euros.


If you do that, Europeans for starters will get a HUGE oil price shock, because they're buying oil contracts in dollars, and to them, oil is staying relatively at the same price. Even though euros are gaining in value against the dollar, the price of oil goes up at the same rate since the dollar is declining and the intrinsic value of oil outside of speculation is slowly increasing.

So Europeans don't see any reason to cut back on consumption, and at home it is driving up inflation.


I say we cut our dominance at NYMEX and stop pricing the contracts in our currency. By this simple act, you will see a HUGE increase in gas prices all over Europe, and a smaller increase here at home. It will be about the same shock here in the US as Katrina was and it will re-ignite more interest in FEVs.


Congress should renew the FEV tax credit and roll that up to a dollar for dollar tax credit at the MARKET PRICE of the vehicle, all of which can be redeemed in the tax year in which the vehicle is purchased, and also allow taxpayers to 1040X their old returns to take advantage of the credit.

If you can redirect the income tax you owe the IRS as an underpayment to buy a new FEV car, wouldn't you want to buy the car instead of flushing that money down the drain to the IRS?
Isn't there already talk of repricing oil in dubai currency?
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