United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Saudi Arabia -- all capitalist, all Islamic, all US allies -- at least, we trust them enough to give them our weapons. None of them are attacking Israel anytime soon. Most of you know nothing about the Islamic word or the issues central to the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

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I wouldn't want my sister living in any of those places.

Also, I think that you need to review your history and politics, the situation is clear and quite simplistic in that part of the world.

Amazing. The first sentence demonstrates a poor understanding of the issues, the next accuses everyone else of knowing nothing. Of course, this isn't the first time Brightside has shown his knowledge of Islam and the middle east to be based on what he wishes it was rather than reality. Remember when he claimed that there was no extremism in Kosovo? Or that female genital mutilation has nothing to do with Islam? But most of us know nothing.

That's just a way to create mystery and get people to shut up. Anything that humans do, can be understood by other humans.

There's nothing knew in the world, as the saying goes.

When did the focus of this conversation turn to whether one would want there sister to live in the Middle East? I thought that we were talking about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and the moderating effects of capitalism ...

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Nice attempt to mischaracterize my arguments in a way that allows them to be easily dismantled. I didn't deny that there were extremists in Kosovo, I just stated the KLA had lost ground in popular elections and that more moderate voices were in control of the country. That is, a fact.

With regard to FGM, I stated that it was a cultural phenomenon, that Christians did it as well, and that it was most prevalent in Africa. All those factors would lead a reasonably intelligent person to believe that the practice has little to do with Islam. I have female friends who are Syrian, Lebanese, Saudi Arabian, and Kuwaiti, all of whom are Islamic and none of whom have ever been subjected to that vile practice.

Before you claim to be an authority on the Middle East and all things Islamic maybe you should meet some people from there and learn about their culture. Better yet, take a trip over there. I went to Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Israel and guess what, people were exceedingly hospitable.

You take the most vile attributes of Islam (some of which aren't really germane to Islam) and you judge an entire religion by them. Islam bashing seems to be your personal crusade as 99.9% of the threads that you start do it. Most of your posts are wholly propagandist and make entirely subjective claims about a culture that could never be verified with empirical evidence. You state your opinion and then, as if you have some super special insight, you claim that anyone who dares to disagree with you is a fool.

It's the Adelarian, Tanny, Jizzy school of debate and, sorry, but I'm not all that interested in attending your lectures. See ya.

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Knew, new, gnu

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Oh thanks, I never gnu which one of those words was the right one to use.

Well, you said: "The former Yugoslavia and Albania are two examples of areas where Islam is prevalent but fundamentalism is not." It is prevalent and I made that case convincingly in the illegals working at military bases thread.

It isIslamic. Here is Al-Azhar Cleric Farahat Said Al-Munji, on Egyptian TV:
"Guys, all these things appear in Islamic law. Don't think we are making these things up. It all exists [in religious law] and is determined... We say that if the clitoris is so on and so forth... What am I saying? When the Prophet Muhammad met Umm Salama in Al-Madina – what did he
say to her? "Are you still doing what you sued to do in Mecca?" In other words, are you still circumcising girls, like you used to do in Mecca? She said: Yes. He said: "Trim it, but don't cut it off." According to another version, he said: "Shorten it, but don't cut it off." "Trim it" means leaving room for sexual desire. That little bit on top, which looks like the rooster's
crest, is shortened, but just the upper part. She needs to cut off the prepuce, the little bit at the top."
http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1466

To his "credit" he says not to cut off the whole thing. Here's what people who perform the practice say about it being Islamic:

http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1467

It's not just in Egypt, the Imam of the State House Mosque in The Gambia says so too:

http://www.observer.gm/enews/index.p...=7650&Itemid=1

Do you claim to know Islam better than clerics in the middle east? There may be other groups who use the pratice, and certainly many Muslims don't, but it is supported in Islamic scripture and practiced as part of the religion. Would you admit being wrong here?

I never claimed to be an authority. Check all of my posts. How do you know where I'm from, who I know, and what I know about the culture? Why do you assume automatically that you are more familiar with it? You don't seem to be (but I don't know). Do you really think I don't even know anyone from the middle east?

I try to defend my statements with fact, moreso than you do. Also, in matters of fact, I have been right more than you in our discussions. I don't remember calling anyone a fool. Ironic, but your characterization is wholly propagandistic and entirely subjective.

Take your pot shot and run away if you want. I trust that an objective reader of this post will see who is debating and who is obfuscating.

What you may be missing is that the internal logic of various cultures leads to or embraces certain practices, and speaks to what they may do in the future.

Islam has many more of what we would call brutal practices than other western religions, and some the rest of the west has decided to give up. The eye for an eye rule, for example.

If a religion allows FGM, and MGM, then it contains ideas that allow the mutilation and objectification of people on a machine like scheldule. If a person is thought good for sawing a person's head off on video, blowing themselves up, ranting against the "infidel, or whatever we see as negative then the psychology of said group is much different than what is considered common sense here.

If we as a culture truely believe in our ideas about humane living, then we should be suspicious of any culture that embraces brutality and calls it good. That goes for elements of our own, as well.

I hope that wasn't too much for you.