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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2008, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Colin P. Varga View Post
If you believe that "Fair Trade" is bad for coffee farmers, instead trying to help farmers in Ethiopia think of the coffee farmers in this country. Just tell the coffee farmers in Hawaii and Puerto Rico that you want to eliminate minimum wage.
If you want to help Puerto Rico, you can try eliminating the massive subsidies Southern sugar farmers' receive.
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Old 05-11-2008, 01:40 PM
Colin P. Varga Colin P. Varga is offline
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If you believe "Fair Trade" is bad for farmers tell Catholic Relief Services. They have a much greater impact on the market place than I do:

http://www.crsfairtrade.org/

Here are the Lutherans:

http://www.lwr.org/coffee/

United Methodists:

http://gbgm-umc.org/Umcor/hunger/coffee.cfm

Episcopal church sell it's own Fair Trade coffee called Bishop's Blend:
http://www.er-d.org/waystogive_63273_ENG_HTM.htm
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2008, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Colin P. Varga View Post
If you believe "Fair Trade" is bad for farmers tell Catholic Relief Services. They have a much great impact on the market place than I do:
How many of these posts are you going to make? No matter how many well-intentioned but misinformed types there are in the world, you're not going to convince me that a silly idea is a good one. Why don't you take gray67 up on his challenge and read Harford's chapter? If you really want to know whether or not fair trade works, why not do it? The book is very entertaining, and I am curious to see how you can respond, if it all, to Harford.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 03:46 PM
Colin P. Varga Colin P. Varga is offline
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I'm not trying to convince anyone; however, I do feel compelled to bring things to light. The report from the Cato is interesting but there are certain lapses in it. The other reports have their faults and anyone is free to note them here or elsewhere.

Some members on PhillyBlog seem to have a need to argue and some a stronger need to "win" or at least declare themselves "winners". I don't intend to deny them or support them. I am willing to exchange ideas.

As to the Hartford book, if you want me to read it and report on it, my research fee is $45.00 per hour, that's my fair trade price. If I find myself in the library and it is available I might sit down with it. I would be curious how much time Hartford spent with Fair Trade farmers themselves?
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Old 05-12-2008, 03:56 PM
Colin P. Varga Colin P. Varga is offline
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Originally Posted by Grappler View Post
At what level do profits become obscene? Who, in your noble opinion, should determine when profits become obscene? Oh that's right, it's all about being fair. God forbid someone comes up with a great idea and makes alot of money. Oh yeah, that's not fair to the folks who didn't have the great idea. I smell a commie in our midst
Wages, as we are told, are regulated by free consent, and therefore the employer, when he pays what was agreed upon, has done his part and seemingly is not called upon to do anything beyond. The only way, it is said, in which injustice might occur would be if the master refused to pay the whole of the wages, or if the workman should not complete the work undertaken; in such cases the public authority should intervene, to see that each obtains his due, but not under any other circumstances.

To this kind of argument a fair-minded man will not easily or entirely assent; it is not complete, for there are important considerations which it leaves out of account altogether. To labor is to exert oneself for the sake of procuring what is necessary for the various purposes of life, and chief of all for self-preservation. "In the sweat of thy face thou shalt eat bread." Hence, a man's labor necessarily bears two notes or characters. First of all, it is personal, inasmuch as the force which acts is bound up with the personality and is the exclusive property of him who acts, and, further, was given to him for his advantage. Secondly, man's labor is necessary; for without the result of labor a man cannot live, and self-preservation is a law of nature, which it is wrong to disobey. Now, were we to consider labor merely in so far as it is personal, doubtless it would be within the workman's right to accept any rate of wages whatsoever; for in the same way as he is free to work or not, so is he free to accept a small wage or even none at all. But our conclusion must be very different if, together with the personal element in a man's work, we consider the fact that work is also necessary for him to live: these two aspects of his work are separable in thought, but not in reality. The preservation of life is the bounden duty of one and all, and to be wanting therein is a crime. It necessarily follows that each one has a natural right to procure what is required in order to live, and the poor can procure that in no other way than by what they can earn through their work.

Let the working man and the employer make free agreements, and in particular let them agree freely as to the wages; nevertheless, there underlies a dictate of natural justice more imperious and ancient than any bargain between man and man, namely, that wages ought not to be insufficient to support a frugal and well behaved wage-earner. If through necessity or fear of a worse evil the workman accept harder conditions because an employer or contractor will afford him no better, he is made the victim of force and injustice.

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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Colin P. Varga View Post
As to the Hartford book, if you want me to read it and report on it, my research fee is $45.00 per hour, that's my fair trade price. If I find myself in the library and it is available I might sit down with it. I would be curious how much time Hartford spent with Fair Trade farmers themselves?
Uhh - I wouldn't pay you a nickel to report to me on a popular economics book, especially since you are obviously incompetent in the basics of economics. I'm simply pointing you to something that might be edifying, all the while really knowing that you already know the conclusion you wish to arrive at.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2008, 06:28 AM
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Grappler, Alesis, Grays 67, Jizay,

There is a thread called is "Is Fair Trade Fair". You guys could enter whatever information regarding what a "commie" crock this is:

http://www.phillyblog.com/philly/wor...rade-fair.html
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Old 05-30-2008, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jizay View Post
Of course, Starbucks has sold more fair trade coffee than anyone in the US.
Just to run the numbers:

In 2005 Starbucks bought 11.5 pounds of Fair Trade Certified Coffee. Which represented 3.7 percent of all the coffee they bought.

http://www.starbucks.com/aboutus/FY05_CSR_Total.pdf
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2008, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Colin P. Varga View Post
Just to run the numbers:

In 2005 Starbucks bought 11.5 pounds of Fair Trade Certified Coffee. Which represented 3.7 percent of all the coffee they bought.

http://www.starbucks.com/aboutus/FY05_CSR_Total.pdf
Well, buy more fair trade from Starbucks and they will buy more than 3.7%.

On serious note, for you or anyone else, no agenda behind the question: What is the typical difference in price between a cup of fair trade coffee and a cup of regular coffee?
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2008, 10:33 AM
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I read a few years back, probably in the wsj, that one of the best trends to hit coffee farmers was the revival of good coffee. when folgers and Maxwell house were king, people just wanted coffee as cheaply as possible. for them to sstay on top, they had to deliver it. This mean that they shopped for the cheapest coffee and it meant that growers had to produce coffee as cheaply as possible. As attention turned to the quality of coffee, grower's who began to learn more about how to produce higher quality, which in turn demanded higher prices, made more money. In some ways it would have paid for coffee growers to educate the public about the benefits of good coffee a long time ago. Jersey dropped its famous tomato in pursuit of cheaper tomatoes that shipped well. Rather than producing high quality tomatoes, they tried to compete with heavily subsidized california and mexico. big mistake. anyways, it's not directly related to fair trade but I thought it might be relevant.
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