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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2004, 06:07 PM
tmcgee tmcgee is offline
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I had no commitment to this neighborhood when I first moved here; I moved here because it was cheap. I rented an apartment for awhile at 45th and Pine before moving to where I am now, 47th and Hazel.

I like this neighborhood very much indeed now, and hope to stay around here as long as possible.

Utopia doesn't exist; we make do the best we can. As such, the recent improvements to the neighborhood have had pluses and minuses.

In general, the place looks better, is cleaner, and has more commercial options than it did even a couple of years ago. That's no small thing. The UCD has done great work, IMO. The process has been slow along the Baltimore corridor, which I think is the right pace for development -- if anything, I think it's too slow. Still the new businesses that have opened have mostly originated within the communities. Consider the African places (I believe more are planned), or Sugar Hill. And the UCD should be praised for that.

(The only recent exception I know of is the closing of the Thriftway and the Food Rite, because of the Fresh Grocer stores. Frankly, both stores were awful places to shop, and should've closed long ago, as the success of Fresh Grocer has shown.)

On the other hand, I fully agree that real estate here is way overpriced. There's nobody to "blame", it's supply and demand, but certainly dimwitted yuppies paying a million plus for these houses do not endear themselves to me. I do think that there's a limit to how far such inflation can stretch -- it's hard for me to believe west of 52nd or north of Locust anytime soon. Indeed, take a look at crummy Chestnut or Walnut around 45th or so -- these are fairly ugly looking streets, and it's a shame, because the location is great. I don't expect that to change anytime soon.

I'm not particularly wedded to "diversity", but yes, I do like my neighborhood. (It's interesting, living in an African enclave.) I don't think it's mix is going to change anytime soon. The real yuppification is happening 45th and east -- I'm sure given enough time things will stretch this far, but we're not there yet. If anything, high prices are slowing development down from 45-52 -- many properties have been listed for a year plus. When the real estate bubble really pops I suspect the sluggishness will increase.

In general, though, I'm happy to be living in a neighborhood on it's way up, and I think to the extent things can be controlled, it's been controlled here. Compare to Fishtown -- no offense to anybody who lives there, but the properties IMO are ugly, the neighborhood rather bleak, and the prices expensive -- an unattractive combination.

tmcgee
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2004, 04:29 PM
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wysong wysong is offline
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1. archae, tranditional apts in west phila cost way more than the homes that are chopped up. sure, this might not effect penn kids who can afford a traditional apt, but what about families that rent and grad students that are on a fixed incomes. By trying to increase homeownership in the penn catchment area you're putting a squeeze on a rental market that has a significant shortage of traditional apt housing. At this the same time, these displaced residents will move further west, which will create a squeeze out there as well.

2. something needs to be done in deep west phila so that it can withstand the forces of creeping gentrification.

3. i'm interested to see what gutmann's policy is on west phila.
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Old 09-19-2004, 10:05 PM
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eldondre eldondre is offline
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Arch, I tend to agree with you. The size of these homes and the detail warrant those kind of prices. It's not like you are getting a rowhome for that price.
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Old 09-19-2004, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissayer
As prices rise, we all get frozen out. I've been through it on the West Side of Manhattan, been through it in Old City, been through it in DuPont Circle in DC.
I guess I need to hurry up and buy a house in Overbrook Farms

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It's not enough to simply say (as Wil does) that it's too bad. There really should be some way of protecting people and small businesses.
I think that, in a large way, this is a national problem and has to do with supply and demand. Since nice, walkable places that encourage community interaction are so scarce in this country people are ending up paying a premium for them as they become more and more popular.
Part of it may be due to the historic and architectural nature of the housing stock, but obviously not all since places like Montgomery Co, Maryland are at least as expensive as the nice neighborhoods in Philadelphia.
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Old 09-20-2004, 09:11 AM
niel niel is offline
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On this topic I'm generally a bit of a Penn partisan, though it's not because I work here necessarily. First, I'll point out that it was Penn's relocation to this area that created the University City neighborhood. When Penn bought this tract of land in the 1870's this was farm country. The streetcar suburbs followed the University, not the other way around.

But that's really beside the point. More recently, it seems to me that Penn is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. The University's previous treatment of its immediate neighbors (Hamilton Village, "Black Bottom") was truly reprehensible, IMO - moving whole neighborhoods out, razing all the buildings, and for what? Vast expanses of lifeless concrete that today are blights on the city. That was truly a disaster.

So what Rodin did in the 90's was a huge step in the right direction - encouraging the middle class to reinvest in neighborhoods that had been declining, and pledging Penn money to help make it happen. I fully agree that Penn administration seems to see things through gold-colored glasses - their idea of useful retail is expensive perfume boutiques and "diners" that serve 8-dollar hamburgers. Those kinds of retail are no more useful to your average student than they are to the West Philly residents. But 40th St. does look better, U City is being cleaned up and fixed up, and the University has learned that it must respect its environment, not steamroll over it.

The diversity issue is mainly one of economic diversity, since the University is a very diverse place in other ways - hundreds of nationalities, ethnic groups, language groups represented. But I don't think it's fair to saddle Penn with the economic diversity problem when it's something that affects the entire city - the clash of socioeconomics is going on in Fairmount, Fishtown, Queen Village, Southwest Center City, etc. etc. just as much as in West Philly.
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Old 09-20-2004, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archaeologist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
I guess I need to hurry up and buy a house in Overbrook Farms.
That is just about the funniest one-liner I've heard here.
:oops:

Quote:
There are some gorgeous houses over in that area. If you could get a decent school and an increased sense of security in that area, those houses would be worth double considering their size and quality.
That neighborhood does have a lot going for it. I expect the reason it isn't more desirable is that it doesn't have that much more going for it than most of the burbs across City Line but does have the hated Philly wage tax. I might change my mind if I ever get out that way, though (only ever seen the neighborhood from the R5).

Ok, back to Penn gentrification.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-20-2004, 07:47 PM
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Arch it happends to everyone. My father owned property in Houston, Texas and turned down a big offer for his building from a CA investor. The next year the market tanked. It's the one that got away for him. They also weren;t willing to stick it out for the next 15 years for the market to get to that point again (the city also added 600,000 people over that time as well).
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Old 09-21-2004, 01:03 PM
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I'd like to thank you all for the stimulating discussion. And thanks, too, to the people who contacted me offline. It feels right to have a balance of opinions in the story.

Eliz.
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Old 09-22-2004, 05:17 PM
philasaFE1 philasaFE1 is offline
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My partner and I bought a house on St. Bernard for 63K in 2000 and happily dumped it for 158K last fall. We paid 54K in Port Richmond for a better house. Ended up with better neighbors, the El to get to work and about a zillion cops that appear the second you hit 911. No more $800 PGW bills heating a "minimansion" no more being called bigots when a kid breaks a window and you yell at him, no more slumlords owning bigger homes paying less taxes while they rent to month-to-month sleaze.

Cedar Park and environs are beautiful, architecturally, but face neighborhood associations which are basically pointless. Topped with a Councilwoman more into collecting from slumlords than serving constituents. I sat on the zoning board for Cedar Park, there was much noise, but all Baltimore Avenue got was a bakery.

The populace there tries to turn everything into a racial issue. No, it is a class issue. Most African Americans do not want fat slobs promising them murder for no reason, most people of any race don't care to have people screeching on their porches drunk and leaving beer cans on the front porch. Most of us need no fat sow screeching and bellowing at 3:00 a.m. when we face work at 6:30.

Most Americans don't need to walk out the front door and be called a "faggot honkey" or "faggot Spic" but when you reply in kind you are destroyed as a bigot.... guess whites and Latinos have no right to anger?

Was cute as a kid when we all felt "aw make up for such abuse", now the abused stands on top of the heap and the raking will never stop.
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Old 09-22-2004, 07:07 PM
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eldondre eldondre is offline
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you guys should get a new councilwoman. she'd like to level the whole district.
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