just curious to know how is the neighborhood around the upper 40's to 50's btwn spruce and market is like. i know its a bit rough, but what are the potentials out there.

any word on future developments? any signs of renovations, rehabs, developments out there?

some good input would be much appreciated.

Well, there are a couple of blocks in there that look stable and well cared for when I've driven or walked past, but on the whole I'd be looking in other directions if I were looking for housing. If you look at crime maps, you'll see that one of the closest hot spots for arrests is right at 52nd and Market. The "urban pioneers" moving into areas they once would have avoided have mostly, in my limited observation, been looking south of where you're talking about. There are 5000 and 5100 blocks that are seeing some of the investment you're talking about, but mostly south of Spruce, from my vantage.

i ask because iam interested more in a storefront with residential above it and it seems like the potential is there in and around those neighborhoods. there is potential every where in phila, but obviously its a collective effort.

i assume once you start getting into the 50's from market st down...it becomes less and less desirable of an area. Even within some of those blocks, many of the houses and properties are well maintained?

where in west phila do people sense that te neighborhood is turning around...excluding areas close to penn.

The neighborhood from Spruce to Market west of about 46th to 52nd is known as Walnut Hill. It is a stable up and coming area with a number of attractive blocks of classic University City Victorians (especially along Walnut and Spruce). West of 52nd, you're in Cobbs Creek, an area that 15 years ago would have been considered a desirable middle class black area not unlike what West Oak Lane is today. Right now, it's more working class than middle class, yet it remains fairly stable, there are relatively few vacant properties, and there is less crime than north of Market (Haddington, Overbrook) or than south of the R3 (Kingsessing). There are some beautiful areas as you get close to 63rd Street (62nd & Carpenter seems to be the epicenter). I would caution that the blocks closer to Market have a bad reputation.

There does not seem to be much if any gentrification west of 52nd Street and that is probably due to the fact that the grand University Victorians pretty much end at 52nd if not sooner. There are smatterings of three-story Victorians here and there west of 52nd, but mostly it's a sea of two-story rowhomes. West Powelton or Eastern Mantua are probably better bets at this point than Cobbs Creek.

I'm biased because I live in the area, but Lancaster Ave seems to be on the rise. It divides Powelton Village from West Powelton.

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JAE

In that particular area it's quite hit or miss, more miss. It's a lower income area which lends itself to having higher crime than other more "desirable" areas. I couldn't say an area of West Philly is gentrifying because no place really is - the neighborhoods are poor-lower middle class/working areas generally stable despite what some would have you believe. And the real estate folks aren't trying to push their luck there yet.

If you're looking at storefronts check arterial streets but not near major intersections. There are still some places you can find. If you're feeling a bit adventurous, the south side of 60th Street has quite a bit of attractive under/unused storefronts and the street is currently banking on a multi-million dollar area improvment grant from Wachovia. Check the current PBJ for more info on that.

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My Man! Pots N' Pans!

The biggest thing affecting this area is what happens with the El, I think. As any glance at the much sited "homicide map" will tell you 52nd (actually 50th to about 54th) gets very violent a few blocks north of Market, whereas South of Market its a mixed bag of residential African American blocks. A lot of the businesses along Market have been shut down by the eternal El contruction. SEPTA meanwhile has scooped up a lot of those properties as businesses fail from the contruction. What they do with the land they have acquired after they finally finish is a big question. They could actually drive a lot of new commercial development that might positively the area long term but don't hold your breath - we are talking about SEPTA here.

One word of concern about Mantua and Belmont and points west of 42nd and north of Haverford, our council person has huge complicated and often porrly documented redevelopment plans at play and I have personally met about 5 people who have been burned by eminent domain proceedings in that area. Before you buy in that area consult the Philadelphia City Planning Committee website to make sure that the property has not been declared "blighted" as part of plans to eminent domain and knock down and redevelop.
http://www.philaplanning.org/plans/a...areaplans.html

The city (and our councilwoman in particular) is particualrly lax about reporting which properties they planning to seize for redevelopment, often seizing properties from investors who just bought properties at sherrif's sale, even just a few months earlier when they get notices from the RDA indicating the city's intention to take the property for redevelopment. Its been a consistant enough problem, particualrly along Haverford Ave., that even if you don't find something on the PCPC website, you might want to call Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell's office to make sure she is not aiming to redevelop your block. I'm as serious as a heart attack about this. If you are from nearly any place else in the country, you will be shocked at the low regard for constitutional property rights we have here in Philly. Basically the district councilperson has wide discression to seize any property they get a hankering to "redevelop" (whether the intended recipient follows through or not). Along Lancaster itself you are probably safe but watch out on smaller streets, including Haverford and points north, even in the 30's.

Ditto. A house on my block in WP appears to have recently sold for close to $300k. I don't think you can go wrong with this area up to but, as seand pointed out, not necessarily including Haverford Ave. It's a pretty safe, quiet residential neighborhood.

North of here (Mantua, Belmont, Parkside) there's significantly more crime and blight, but there appear to be a large number of properties changing heands for ever higher prices up there, so my feeling is that it's a good investment. I think the University City redevelopment will eventually meet the Brewerytown redevelopment across the river, at least where Councilwoman Blackwell's eminent domain antics don't intervene.

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How would a young, professional white couple fit in near Malcolm X Park? My husband and I would like to buy there but not sure if the neighbors would be very welcoming. What do you think?

I'm not extremely familiar with that area but, if it's anything like West Powelton, they'll probalby welcome you as long as you're respectful, friendly, and do your part to keep the block neat and clean.

Just like any area with people who are different from you, you need to make some concessions for the expectations they have of their neighbors. Get to know your neighbors and do as much listening as possible. Newcomers on my block have gotten flack for things like not keeping their yard free of weeds or letting their pets go in other people's yards. Also, for not sweeping in front of their house.

Most of all, just don't act snooty or do things that make it look like you're flaunting your "young, professional white couple" status and you'll most likely be just fine.

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Your representatives on Philadelphia's City Council are at odds with our new mayor over whether many reforms he has proposed should become law. Please write to them and tell them what your priorities are.

Indict State Senator Vince Fumo into The Crooked Pol Hall of Fame.