Hi all,
I plan to move to Philly this summer to go to graduate school at Penn and I'd like to live in University City or at least nearby. I'd really like to find a lofted studio/1br but I haven't been able to locate any outside of the expensive center city neighborhoods. Does anyone know if any of these exist near U. City at a price that I might be able to afford on a grad. student stipend?

I'm not sure if you would consider them affordable as a grad student (depends on whether you're in the Wharton school or School of Social Work I suppose), but the Left Bank apartments are the closest lofts to Penn. Their homepage is www.leftbankapts.com . I know the studios are popular b/c they run a little over $1k/month, but their 1 bedrooms are more like $1500/month. The University Crossings are not really lofts, but they're significantly cheaper ( www.ucnet.com/universitycrossings ). The problem is that they recently made a deal with Drexel University to rent out a couple hundred rooms to college students. This is not necessarily bad, but I have heard of instances when intoxicated students left, er, evidence behind of their revelry.

The other option are the lofts on the western edge of CC. The Riverloft is popular with some Penn grad students ( http://www.aimco.com/AptSearch/PropS...pertyID=038403 ), but very pricey. Finally, 2121 Market is a good deal but a little further into CC ( http://www.philadelphiamanagement.co...ropertyid=6205 ). It has no parking so that might affect your decision.

I would not recommend University Crossings to a Penn Grad student. Because of its location, it has essentially morphed into another dorm for Drexel undergrads. To add to it, since most of the floors are not Drexel operated there are no RAs to control what goes on inside. I looked at 2121 Market when it first opened, and the crowd there was definitely a little more reasonable. Sounds like your best bet is gonna be to find a nice studio or one bedroom in Spruce Hill/ Powelton. Houses in the area generally have more character than larger apartment buildings. You should find something decent for under $750. Good luck!

-G

Thanks for the replies so far. I'd like to find something for under $800, so I guess I'm going to give up on the loft idea and just try to find an apartment. If possible, I would still like to find something with a little character. Any specific suggestions around the U. City area? Also, I've heard that West Philly is pretty sketchy. Is the reputation warranted, and if so, where exactly does "West" Philly start?

Yes, the majority of West Philly is sketchy, but the areas around Penn and Drexel aren't bad at all. West Philly technically begins at the Schuylkill River westward. The general safety boundaries are:
For Spruce Hill/Cedar Park - Walnut to the North, 48th to the West (although the boundary is being pushed further out), and Baltimore to the South.
For Powelton Village - Spring Garden to the North, and Lancaster to the West (Roughly 38th St). UC Police patrol these areas on bike. Incidents happen, but no more so than Center City. University City is generally considered an extension of Center City anyways because of its proximity.

-G

Hello,

Well, your biggest problem is that it sounds like you're looking now,
for a place in 4 months- because landlords want places rented now,
it's hard to find a place 3 or 4 months beforehand.

You'll probably have the best change of getting a july/august rental from
the larger companies that manage the big apartment buildigs-
they have enough places and long notice requirements, so they can actually plan to have an apartment open 3 or more months out into the future.

For the smaller rentals, like townhomes or apartment conversions, they're often on 30 or 60 day notice to the landlord, who may not do much advertising until he has a vacant apartment to show - which means they're looking for people who can more in right away, not 3-4 months down the line.

Depending on your situation, you might take a summer sublet from somebody at Penn and then hope to find a place over the summer -
it's riskier, but it's much easier to find an apartment when you're actually able to walk around the neighborhood and see the places that just have a "for rent" sign" taped to the front railing.

For comparison, I looked through the MLS- which is mostly house listings,
rather than apartments, but there are 5 places in University City and Cener City under $800- Three in University City, one in Southwest Center City and one down towards the commerical area of south Street.

If you're at Penn, remember that you have access to a huge transit and transportation system- Not just the trolley, but also the subway and regional rail system

You can also live within walking distance of a train or subway or trolley station just about anywhere in the Delaware Valley and get to Penn-

That increases the available places up from 5 in Univeristy City and Center City to three or four times that many if you include the outlying areas.

Hal

Don't let people convince you that University City is dangerous. The Spruce Hill/Cedar Park area that gap27 mentions (though I'd extend it south to Chester Avenue, at least through about 46th or 47th St.) has some really pretty nice blocks and some more run-down areas, but on the whole that part of U. City is pretty cool - corner cafes and restaurants, trolleys, Clark Park, beautiful Victorian architecture. Try to stay west of about 42nd St., since to the east there are a lot of undergrads living off-campus, which makes things a bit trashier and louder.

Can you get mugged there? Sure, but that could happen in Rittenhouse Square or Fairmount or Fishtown just as easily.

I echo the positive statements made about UC. I just came back from our annual prospective students party and some of us "grizzled" grad students were amazed that we were meeting at 49th and Warrington. When we came here in the late 90's, we would have never imagined going that far west. Instead of run down stores with handpainted signs, we now see many new stores and restaurants along Baltimore with new signage in general.

The key as someone mentioned is to walk around during the daytime b/c each block is unique to some degree or the other. A worm's eye view is vastly superior in this case to a bird's.

For $800, you can easily get a great 1br apartment. Many leases start in June and September but it's easy to get cheap summer sublets if you're willing to move twice to save money. It's not unusual for people to look for housing now, especially if you prefer one of the apartment complexes run by the companies like Alan Klein and University City Housing. It's a little more laid back with houses.

There are four main types of housing: 1. Very large apartment complex (Fairfax at 43rd and Locust, Garden Court Plaza at 47th and Pine, Chestnut Hall and Hamilton Court at 39th and Chestnut which are undergrad dominated but closer) 2. Ubiquitous Medium Size apartment complexes which are typically 3+ stories 3. Large houses cut up into apartments (might be the best bet based on your needs) 4. Large houses with common space shared by everyone.

For $800, I would live west of 43rd to get the most bang for the buck. Several areas to walk around: 1. 43rd-46th between Locust and Spruce - many retail stores with a more urban feel, near new Penn Alexander School, CVS, cafe, and Koch's (best deli in Philly) 2. 42nd-46th between Spruce and Baltimore - big Victorian houses with some great converted apartments near 44th and Pine, Green Line Cafe, Clark Park, 34 Trolley and 42 bus on south and north boundaries 3. 46th-48th between Larchwood and Spruce - Garden Court area that feels the most residential with grand tree-lined streets and some stores and tennis courts 4. 46th-48th between Larchwood and Baltimore, 46th-49th between Baltimore and Chester - Cedar Park and Squirrel Hill respectively with some great neighborhoods and restaurants along Baltimore Ave. corridor with 13 and 34 Trolleys. 5. 36th and Lancaster - I'm not as familiar with Powelton village, but there are great restaurants, new cafe opening, 10 Trolley

I thought I would follow Hal's example and post a map for reference:

And in case you're wondering why in the world it was called
Spruce Hill, or Squirrel Hill,
because there used to be hills before the area was graded for homes.

And yes, Clark park used to be that mill pond.



Here's University City- er the fields of West Philadelphia in 1863-

When the US Army was marching to Gettsyburg, Philadelphians were busy buiding gun emplacement, like "Fort Baltimore" at 55th & Baltimore Ave,
artillery batteries at 49th and Botanic, along Lancaster Pike, and gun emplacements along 33rd Street.

Hal