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Old 05-11-2007, 08:12 PM
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phillynova phillynova is offline
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Default Eastern State on yet another ghost type thingie show

This time Most Haunted. It's on Friday's on the Travel Channel, and it's a total mess! It's apparantly a hit show in England.

Well, it's not confirmed to be ESP, but you can pretty much tell by the video.

http://travel.discovery.com/video/vi...leId=841459255
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Old 05-12-2007, 07:34 PM
markedixon markedixon is offline
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I'm torn about this. On the one hand, I give a lot of credit to the people who run ESP for saving it from being turned into a...CVS, or whatever some developer was proposing for the site 10+ years ago.

On the other hand, I think they've also taken the path of least resistance in its interpretation. ESP is a very important place in the history of criminal justice. The people who designed and built it were really looking for an alternative to the old "lock 'em up and throw away the key" ethic.

So, yeah, I'm glad ESP has been preserved. But the ghost stuff and the Bastille Day events kind of make me sad. There is a much better story there.
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Old 05-12-2007, 08:49 PM
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Actually, NY Times had a nice article on Eastern State (and prison tourism generally) this week. I don't know how long these links will work, but for what it's worth:

http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/05/11...1prison.1.html
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/khtm...N_FEATURE.html
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Old 05-13-2007, 01:39 PM
markedixon markedixon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No El View Post
Actually, NY Times had a nice article on Eastern State (and prison tourism generally) this week.
Thanks for the article, which I think makes my point. The NYT writer grouped ESP with all the other prison museums in the country without really getting the issues it raised. Example: "Eventually, attitudes about punishment caught up with the plumbing. After 1900, Eastern State was mostly a typical prison on the 20th-century model."

And then the piece goes on to quote a former prisoner that modern ESP prisoners all had weapons and that murders were common when it was run as a congregate facility (i.e., not the original solitary-confinement model). So, despite the dismissive tone in the quote above, it seems that the builders of ESP might have had some good ideas about how to run a penal institution. Maybe our attitudes need to "go back" rather than "catch up."

Better than the ghost stories and nonsense about Al Capone, I think, would be a programmatic approach that focused on what we do with people who break societies rules, and why.
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Old 05-14-2007, 11:56 AM
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So, yeah, I'm glad ESP has been preserved. But the ghost stuff and the Bastille Day events kind of make me sad. There is a much better story there.
I think they do a really good job of portraying the real story, too. Have you taken the day tour? I went to a reading of The Telltale Heart last fall in the middle of the prison, and it was followed up by a discussion with historical and criminal experts discussing the history of the prison.
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Old 05-14-2007, 12:06 PM
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ESP and the Mutter Museum are my favorite places in Philly.
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Old 05-14-2007, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by KENfmt View Post
I think they do a really good job of portraying the real story, too. Have you taken the day tour? I went to a reading of The Telltale Heart last fall in the middle of the prison, and it was followed up by a discussion with historical and criminal experts discussing the history of the prison.
I agree. I make an annual pilgrimage to ESP, it's one of my favorite places in the world (tells you something about me, eh?). I think in the audio tour and the guided tours with a docent, you will get more historical and intellectual discussion. The fact of the matter is that these locations do not run on good intentions and rain water--they require money and a budget. And one of the better ways to get money from an interested populace is to give them what they want. As much as it pains me to say, not everyone in the world is as intellectually- and historically-minded as us, the fine members of Philly Blog. Your average person wants to go to Terror Behind the Walls and Bastille Day and the odd little performance events on the site. What most program directors hope is that these popular events will lead the average person to wanting to learn more about the history behind the site. It's the window-dressing to draw people in further (while lightening their wallet a touch, in order to maintain the site for future use). I would not envy a Program or Creative Director's mandate: maintain current operations, develop interesting programs that will draw paying attendees, prevent cost overruns, continue with planned improvements, AND maintain historical accuracy. Oy gevalt!

I would always welcome more historical or intellectually-oriented presentations or discussions. Dropping a suggestion email to the director probably wouldn't hurt. Or dropping a suggestion email to a historical group that might use the ESP as a backdrop.
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:04 PM
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Most Haunted does have an episode featuring ESP, I'm pretty sure that's it.

While you may not appreciate the ghost/spook stuff, the truth of it is, that's what keeps ESP going. TBTW raises roughly 75% of the prison's entire operating budget in the 20-something days that it's open. Without it, ESP simply wouldn't have the funds to continue doing the daytime tours, or be open at all during the rest of the year. (from april-august, there is little to no focus on the ghosts or TBTW.) The museum is always open after TBTW with discount coupons available for the daytime tours - which, for those in town not just looking for me or my friends to jump out from behind a wall at them - is actually really, really well done. Probably one of the better self guided tours i've been on. They have plenty of guest narrators (Steve Buscemi!) and the tour itself is very comprhensive, and takes you around to all of ESP that is currently open to the public. Heck, you don't even have to wear hardhats on the premises anymore, thanks to the funds raised by Terror.

ESP also runs way more events than just Bastille Day - they're just not nearly as heavily publicized. ESP has art + community programs, speaking engagements, all sorts of stuff, but I'll be the first to admit they they could do a better job of promoting all of it. If you really want to be in the know about special events there, you have to be on their email list (sign up on the website).
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