PhillyBlog - Philadelphia  

Go Back   PhillyBlog - Philadelphia > Who We Are > Spirituality & Faith
Blogs Map Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Google
 
Web www.phillyblog.com

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 12:02 PM
xxxTHX1138xxx's Avatar
xxxTHX1138xxx xxxTHX1138xxx is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,795
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Villager View Post
I didn't see anything about that in the invitation. Every church, synagogue, mosque or other religious institution where people pray interprets its holy book one way or another. Some, however, decide that their interpretation is God's exact meaning, which could limit the opportunity for growth and thought.

no you did not because they will not tell you that directly. But many other denominations change holy scripture to follow secular culture which to me is sad.
__________________
"I'm sorry but it's not my fault that I am not infected with white liberal guilt syndrome like you are!"
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 12:40 PM
FatherJim FatherJim is offline
Pretzel Vendor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Manayunk/Rox
Posts: 58
Default Trying Hard to Follow Scripture

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxTHX1138xxx View Post
no you did not because they will not tell you that directly. But many other denominations change holy scripture to follow secular culture which to me is sad.
I understand your concern re: textual authenticity. However, I do say just that, read the website and you will see that we admit we don't get it right. That is why God is still a mystery.

The problem is that no one really knows how to 'correctly' move an ancient first century text, all of which was once passed solely orally, into a modern age - this is called correct hermeneutical transfer.

After 8 years of university/seminary, 12 years of process and discernment, etc. I am still not sure that I get it 'right' - at least I admit it.

What I do, therefore, is to try to listen for God's voice in movement and sound - and apply it to embrace the broken in the world: all of us. I, as a priest, am just as broken as any one else - maybe even moreso. So, I apply the Jesus rule: find the broken and lost, embrace and love them, accept them where they are and allow God to do the rest.

That is where we find Saint Miriam - a place to find refuge and allow growth. A place where God's voice can be found from within and bring growth and love.

I pray you well in your own journey...

Father Jim+
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 12:49 PM
Colin P. Varga Colin P. Varga is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Manayunk
Posts: 2,821
Default

The authority of the Roman Catholic Church is monolithic, top down. However, the Roman Catholic Church as a whole is not monolithic. Diversity in faith and practice are found within the RC Church even in the conservative Archdiocese of Philadelphia. If the church were not so diverse there would not be different orders of the religious: Augustinians, Franciscans, etc.
__________________
If he ever had to eat his own words he'd die of malnutrition.
Colin P. Varga 1991
Reply With Quote

Advertisement

   
     
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 10:02 AM
xxxTHX1138xxx's Avatar
xxxTHX1138xxx xxxTHX1138xxx is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,795
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatherJim View Post
The problem is that no one really knows how to 'correctly' move an ancient first century text, all of which was once passed solely orally, into a modern age - this is called correct hermeneutical transfer.
yes, preaching Gosple that has been handed down to us by the apostles to a modern age is difficult for sure. However, becarefull not to "water down" or revise the Gospel and scripture to suit the secular culture or popular opinion or even politics. I hear allot from people "the church has to keep up with the times". My response is "Does God care about secular culture?" I thin God cares that man is becomming a slave to secular culture and popular opinion which is a sin initself.



Quote:
What I do, therefore, is to try to listen for God's voice in movement and sound - and apply it to embrace the broken in the world: all of us. I, as a priest, am just as broken as any one else - maybe even moreso. So, I apply the Jesus rule: find the broken and lost, embrace and love them, accept them where they are and allow God to do the rest.

That is where we find Saint Miriam - a place to find refuge and allow growth. A place where God's voice can be found from within and bring growth and love.
I pray you well in your own journey...
Father Jim+
And I admire you for your work for embracing the downtroden. Christ embraced all people regardless of their backgrounds. What he did not embrace sin. He loved sinners but hated the sin that they committed.
__________________
"I'm sorry but it's not my fault that I am not infected with white liberal guilt syndrome like you are!"
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 10:17 AM
FatherJim FatherJim is offline
Pretzel Vendor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Manayunk/Rox
Posts: 58
Default No Water, Just Love

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxTHX1138xxx View Post
yes, preaching Gosple that has been handed down to us by the apostles to a modern age is difficult for sure. However, becarefull not to "water down" or revise the Gospel and scripture to suit the secular culture or popular opinion or even politics. I hear allot from people "the church has to keep up with the times". My response is "Does God care about secular culture?" I thin God cares that man is becomming a slave to secular culture and popular opinion which is a sin initself.





And I admire you for your work for embracing the downtroden. Christ embraced all people regardless of their backgrounds. What he did not embrace sin. He loved sinners but hated the sin that they committed.
Thank you for your post. If anyone thinks I 'water' anything, perhaps a visit to one of our services will change their minds. I believe that we have one of the strongest, socially-justice, and 'real' services that provides us with the ever-emerging voice and mystery of God and urges us to recognize our own faults while we accept and love ALL, right where they are. I do not beleive that you heal by force; you heal by love and acceptance to allow God to shine.

I wish you well,

Father Jim+
www.MySaintMiriam.org
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 12:57 PM
Philde25's Avatar
Philde25 Philde25 is offline
Tastykake Maker
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Neither Here Nor There
Posts: 183
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxTHX1138xxx View Post
yes, preaching Gosple that has been handed down to us by the apostles to a modern age is difficult for sure. However, becarefull not to "water down" or revise the Gospel and scripture to suit the secular culture or popular opinion or even politics. I hear allot from people "the church has to keep up with the times". My response is "Does God care about secular culture?" I thin God cares that man is becomming a slave to secular culture and popular opinion which is a sin initself.
To a certain extent, yes. The core tenets should not change, but the policies and methodologies can and should adapt to suit the changing needs of the faithful. People and societies change from generation to generation; assuming otherwise is folly. Just because you've always done something one way does not mean you shouldn't be open to doing it another, particularly if the new way is more relevant and meaningful to the flock. A church that can't at least in some ways change with the times risks becoming irrelevant.

As for your criticisms of secular culture, be careful not to throw everyone under the "perverted" bus. Just because something isn't religious or spiritual doesn't mean it can't be good. Secular isn't necessarily the dirty word you seem to imply. Secular humanists, agnostics and atheists are quite capable of positive contributions to society.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 03:26 PM
Phillycatlady's Avatar
Phillycatlady Phillycatlady is offline
Water Ice Vendor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NE- Bustleton/Somerton- "almost the burbs"
Posts: 898
Default

Are we really talking about changing scripture, or changing canon law? Those are 2 different things.
The RCC canons exclude women from the priesthood, deem homosexuality a sin, deem birth control and abortion a sin, and say divorced Catholics must annul their marriages.
You can say, "Well it's because the canons are based on scripture."

In alternative Catholic churches such as Father Jim's, you won't find canons such as those. You will see different canons. These are also based on scripture.

The Holy Scriptures are the same. But they will be interpreted differently from priest to priest and church to church. On Sunday I hear the same Gospel reading 3 times. First I hear it on the Hallmark Channel's broadcast of Mass from Notre Dame U Chapel, then again on EWTN's Daily Mass, and then in person at my Episcopal church. The 3 sermons that interpret the Gospel are almost never the same but 3 different totally different "takes."
__________________
"I think that anything that begins to give people a sense of their own worth and dignity is God."
John Shelby Spong

Congrats Phils 2008 World Champs!
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 05:03 PM
xxxTHX1138xxx's Avatar
xxxTHX1138xxx xxxTHX1138xxx is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,795
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillycatlady View Post
Are we really talking about changing scripture, or changing canon law? Those are 2 different things.
The RCC canons exclude women from the priesthood, deem homosexuality a sin, deem birth control and abortion a sin, and say divorced Catholics must annul their marriages.
You can say, "Well it's because the canons are based on scripture."
I am talking mainly about scripture and the Gospels.
Also remember the eastern orthodox churches and well as some Lutheran sects here in the
USA do not ordain women. I believe also some Episcopal dioceses do not as well.
__________________
"I'm sorry but it's not my fault that I am not infected with white liberal guilt syndrome like you are!"

Last edited by xxxTHX1138xxx : 05-13-2008 at 11:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 05:06 PM
xxxTHX1138xxx's Avatar
xxxTHX1138xxx xxxTHX1138xxx is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,795
Default

I am not trying to throw anyone under the perverted bus. And yes secular should not be a dirty word. However the church must be carefull in how it explains the interpretations of scripture to the world without embracing that part of secularism that shuns anything to do with God.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philde25 View Post
To a certain extent, yes. The core tenets should not change, but the policies and methodologies can and should adapt to suit the changing needs of the faithful. People and societies change from generation to generation; assuming otherwise is folly. Just because you've always done something one way does not mean you shouldn't be open to doing it another, particularly if the new way is more relevant and meaningful to the flock. A church that can't at least in some ways change with the times risks becoming irrelevant.

As for your criticisms of secular culture, be careful not to throw everyone under the "perverted" bus. Just because something isn't religious or spiritual doesn't mean it can't be good. Secular isn't necessarily the dirty word you seem to imply. Secular humanists, agnostics and atheists are quite capable of positive contributions to society.
__________________
"I'm sorry but it's not my fault that I am not infected with white liberal guilt syndrome like you are!"
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 09:32 PM
Phillycatlady's Avatar
Phillycatlady Phillycatlady is offline
Water Ice Vendor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NE- Bustleton/Somerton- "almost the burbs"
Posts: 898
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxTHX1138xxx View Post
I am talking mainly about scripture and the Gospels.
Also remember the easter orthodox churches and well as some Lutheran sects here in the
USA do not ordain women. I believe also some Episcopal dioceses do not as well.
OK, I stand corrected. Barring women isn't just a RCC thing.

In the USA, only 3 Episcopal dioceses do not ordain women: Quincy, IL, Ft. Worth, TX and San Joaquin, CA.
__________________
"I think that anything that begins to give people a sense of their own worth and dignity is God."
John Shelby Spong

Congrats Phils 2008 World Champs!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.