PhillyBlog - Philadelphia  

Go Back   PhillyBlog - Philadelphia > Who We Are > Spirituality & Faith
Blogs Map Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Google
 
Web www.phillyblog.com

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2004, 01:02 PM
peacemover's Avatar
peacemover peacemover is offline
Philly guy in the 'burbs
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 4,143
Default Methodist Church puts gay pastor "on trial"

An openly gay Methodist pastor has recently been "put on trial" by her denomination based solely on her sexual orientation, and the fact that she is in a monogamous, committed relationship with another woman.

Personally, I believe that a person's sexual orientation is between them, their partner and God- as long as they are monogamous and have made a lifetime committment to their partner; AND as long as they do not specifically seek to persuade their congregants to practice homosexuality.

What are your thoughts?

Here is the article and a link:

Quote:
Posted on Thu, Dec. 02, 2004

HINDA SCHUMAN / Inquirer

Church trial of lesbian minister opens

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/10316496.htm

The prosecution insists a non-celibate lesbian cannot serve. The Rev. Beth Stroud could lose her ministry credentials.

By Jim Remsen

Inquirer Faith Life Editor


A high-profile United Methodist Church trial opened yesterday with the prosecution insisting that the church cannot allow non-celibate lesbians to serve as ordained ministers.

Addressing a jury of pastors, the Rev. Thomas Hall said that church rules required them to defrock the Rev. Beth Stroud, an associate pastor at First United Methodist Church of Germantown.

"This may well be one of the most painful days of my life," Hall, the lead prosecutor, declared in the makeshift courtroom at a church retreat center near Pottstown. "But we have a charge to hold one another accountable for our actions."

The defense counsel, the Rev. J. Dennis Williams, countered that the church's rules are "more nuanced" than Hall contends, and he asked the jurors to "discern if Beth Stroud's ministry is being blessed by God."

Stroud, 34, also took the stand to tell the court - and a visitor gallery packed with her supporters, "[I'm] doing the best I know how to be obedient to God's calling."

Stroud's defense may have already been dealt a mortal blow, however. The judge issued a ruling just before the trial began that disallowed the defense team's key argument: that banning "self-avowed, practicing homosexuals" from the clergy violates the spirit of the denomination's constitution, which says "the Word of God is preached by persons divinely called" and lists no bars to the ministry.

That ruling limited the focus to the denomination's Book of Discipline, which declares homosexuality "incompatible with Christian teachings" and prohibits the ordaining and appointment of practicing gays and lesbians. The denomination's convention and its highest court took action recently to reinforce that prohibition.

With conflicts over gay rights deeply dividing the 8.5 million-member denomination, and much of American religion, the case has been closely watched around the country. An estimated two-thirds of Methodists support the ban on gay clergy, though there is a vocal dissident camp.

If the jury of nine male and four female pastors convicts Stroud, she could be ordered to surrender her ministry credentials. The defense will make its case when the trial resumes this morning.

Stroud precipitated the trial when she gave a sermon on Easter 2003 in which she told congregants at her gay-friendly church that she was living in a "covenant relationship" with another woman.

The case has made her a cause celebre, and scores of her supporters turned out for yesterday's proceedings at Camp Innabah, a wooded complex in rural Pughtown. Many sported stoles in the symbolic rainbow colors of the gay-rights movement and wore name tags declaring "Beth is my pastor."

The opening witness was Boston Bishop Peter Weaver, who was until recently presiding bishop of this area, and who initiated the process that led to the trial - which is a last resort under church procedures. Weaver said Stroud declined the options of celibacy, surrendering her ministry credentials, or departing for another denomination.

Instead, he said, Stroud wanted "a journey of truth-telling. I affirmed that as important for all of us. She set the tone of saying the church is not the enemy but we are family ... and we can model that we are one in Christ."

Stroud was next on the stand. In sometimes tearful testimony, she said she decided to challenge the church ban because "Christians take risks and Christians stand up for what they believe is right."

Her hope, she said, was that the trial "will be a learning moment for the church, a time of deep listening where we are so open to each other that we might even change our minds."

Outside the courtroom - an erstwhile gymnasium on the leafy grounds of the camp - members of Stroud's church and gay-rights Methodist organizations stood vigil with banners and songs. They were joined by the national activist group Soulforce, which was protesting the trial as "an act of spiritual violence" against gays.

On the other side of the argument were the Rev. Karen Booth, director of Transforming Congregations, and Bill Taylor of Exodus. These two controversial Christian groups assist gays who want to become heterosexual.

"We believe homosexual behavior is a sinful behavior," Booth said, as she stood in the morning drizzle. "And we support the church position, as do most Methodists."

In church trials, the judge, jury and lead counsel are all ordained clergy. The judge is Bishop Joseph H. Yeakel of Maryland, an expert in church law who has presided over 13 other ecclesiastical trials.

Seated behind Stroud throughout the daylong proceeding were her partner, Chris Paige, and her parents and two sisters.

In March, the Rev. Karen Dammann faced a similar trial in Washington state, where gay-rights sentiment is widespread. Dammann was acquitted after jurors said the Book of Discipline, while referring to the "sacred worth" of gays, did not specifically list homosexuality as a "chargeable offense" for ministers. An uproar ensued among church conservatives, prompting the judicial council, the church's highest court, to declare homosexuality a chargeable offense.

For the Stroud trial - the first test of the tightened rules - Yeakel obtained assurances from the clergy jurors that they could strictly enforce the Book of Discipline.

The defense was prepared to call six expert witnesses who would have argued, among other things, that the Methodist constitution prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, and that a celibacy requirement is inconsistent with Methodist theology.

Yeakel ruled that the witnesses' constitutional challenges were outside the bounds of a jury trial, but the defense managed to have a summary of the arguments entered into the court record so they could be raised on appeal.

Stroud said she has not decided whether to appeal if the jury rules against her.

The jury of 13 United Methodist pastors was drawn from across the 16-county Eastern Pennsylvania Annual Conference. At least nine votes are needed to convict.

If Stroud is convicted, she could be expelled from the denomination, lose her ministry credentials, or receive a lesser sentence such as a temporary suspension that would be subject to review.

If she loses her credentials, Stroud's 800-member church has promised she can continue her ministry work under a lay status, but without presiding at baptisms or Communion. Stroud has agreed to the offer.

The proceedings began with a prayer by the area Methodist bishop, Marcus Matthews, "seeking God's blessings and directions" during the trial. Matthews had declared yesterday as a day of prayer for the 138,000 Methodists in the Eastern Pennsylvania Annual Conference's 500 churches.


Rev. Stroud (left) and her partner, Chris Paige, at a news conference. Stroud told the court: "Christians take risks and … stand up for what they believe."
__________________
Peace,

John

My eBay World

My Librarything

MySpace

. . . .
"The brick walls are not there to keep us out. The brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something.
Because the brick walls are there to stop the people who don’t want it badly enough.”"

-Randy Pausch, from "Achieving Your Childhood Dreams," also known as The Last Lecture
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2004, 03:46 PM
chrissayer chrissayer is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Overbrook Farms
Posts: 8,542
Default

It seems to me that any church, any denomination, has the right to do whatever pleases themselves - and fits their own theology.

I would have no part of a religious organization which bans people based on gender orientation - but then, I probably wouldn't join any religious organization, regardless - espcially one that would have me.
__________________
“Cities have the capability of providing something for everybody, only because, and only when, they are created by everybody.” - Jane Jacobs
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2004, 12:14 PM
peacemover's Avatar
peacemover peacemover is offline
Philly guy in the 'burbs
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 4,143
Default

There are many people even within the Methodist denomination who are very saddened that this sort of discrimination has occurred. Yes, denominations do have the right to decide who is fit to serve and why; but this whole situation has seemed to bring to a boil an already sensitive issue.

I hope she is re-instated and that everyone can move on and work together to serve.
Reply With Quote

Advertisement

   
     
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2004, 12:40 PM
chrissayer chrissayer is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Overbrook Farms
Posts: 8,542
Default

As an outsider, I think the scandal of this decision should have been that it was done on a one-person vote - 7 to 6 or 6 to 5.

It seems to me that a decision of this import - both administratively (as a personnel matter) and theologically, should have called for a greater majority of the panel.

I don't understand how any organization (religious or otherwise) makes that sort of a decision (to defrock and deny someone their vocation) on a single vote.

I wish the congregation had told the greater body to "shove" it.
__________________
“Cities have the capability of providing something for everybody, only because, and only when, they are created by everybody.” - Jane Jacobs
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2004, 10:14 AM
peacemover's Avatar
peacemover peacemover is offline
Philly guy in the 'burbs
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 4,143
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissayer
It seems to me that a decision of this import - both administratively (as a personnel matter) and theologically, should have called for a greater majority of the panel.

. . .

I wish the congregation had told the greater body to "shove" it.
If I am not mistaken, the congregation did hold a prayer vigil to support Pastor Stroud, and also, following the decision she was offered a full-time Christian Ed. position at the church as a paid staff member.

I think most of the congregation, and also many other congregations- both Methodist and many other faiths as well, are deeply saddened by the incredible hatred and discrimination this regrettable decision has sparked.

There are a lot of church members and leaders from Methodist churches and many other protestant congregations who support equal rights for ALL people in ministry regardless of their gender or sexual orientation. However, I think that the vocal conservative minority, sadly, in many cases, still has a strangle hold on the governing bodies of many of these denominations.

May we all pray for unity and healing that ALL people may feel welcomed and affirmed in their faith and calling to serve.
__________________
Peace,

John

My eBay World

My Librarything

MySpace

. . . .
"The brick walls are not there to keep us out. The brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something.
Because the brick walls are there to stop the people who don’t want it badly enough.”"

-Randy Pausch, from "Achieving Your Childhood Dreams," also known as The Last Lecture
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Methodists reinstate minister defrocked due to sexual orientation peacemover Spirituality & Faith 31 11-09-2005 05:51 PM
Sayers Memorial United Methodist Church ddd University City / West Philadelphia 0 05-09-2005 04:34 PM
Calvary United Methodist Church Eagle Scout University City / West Philadelphia 6 05-05-2005 08:49 AM
Pope on a feeding tube peacemover Spirituality & Faith 30 04-02-2005 02:54 PM
Can you pass this drug test? innovafire The Nation 113 02-21-2004 07:56 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.