Interesting....

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/26/po...tml?oref=login

Interesting article, Ezra... I suspect that Bush choosing to worship at the Episcopal church in Washington during an election year may be no accident or chance occurrence... :roll:

He already has the votes of his political base, so I guess his handlers probably figure it can't hurt if he worships at a church of a more liberal tradition.

Bush is definitely anti-gay/lesbian, anti-choice, however, regardless of what church he attends when he is in Washington on Sunday mornings.

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I actually think his beliefs are 100% bogus and politically manufactured. You can not be a viable candidate without visible faith in God. He puts in his time at whatever church is closest, which is the Episcopal church in Washington.

I think that is an overly simplistic and naive appraisal, Ezra. First I think Bush does have faith beliefs (albeit a pretty rigid Christian fundamentalism). Second, I suspect that Bush's handler's are trying to gain some political capital by advising him to attend the Episcopal church when he is in Washington- it would be a politically shrewd move.

Faith is an important factor in a candidate to a vast majority of Americans, as much as agnostics, atheists, and separation-of-church-and-state activists protest.

:what_is_:

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It has been widely reported and posted here (I know I posted a piece from Sara Williams) that President Bush does not attend church on a regular basis. Every once in a while, he will go over to the Episcopal Church which is right across Lafayette Square from the White House.

I think we should be careful when we attack someone for his/her religious beliefs or practices, assuming they don't hurt anyone else.

Lots of believers don't go to church very often; lots of churchgoers are not really very good Christians. So, IMO, it's hard to draw a real connection between faith and churchgoing.

That said, Bush learned during his first campaign for Congress the power of the religious Right. He honed those skills working with Ralph Reed and Christian Coalition during his father's campaigns. And, he has used his beliefs as one of his ultimate political tools during both gubenatorial campaigns and both presidential campaigns.

I find that tacky. I much prefer Kerry's quiet acknowledgement of his faith.

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You don't find the whole born again thing to be suspect? Apologies if you yourself are. I just can't wrap my mind around "born again".

I can sort of understand... you lead a life of drugs and alcohol and personal failure... then with faith in God you turn your life around... I can sort of get it.

BUT... with someone like Bush, who's entire political life is manufactured for the masses... I err on the side of simplicity.

Here is the simplistic breakdown:

Sunday: wake up from decades of failure.
Monday: buy into baseball team for name recognition and instant approval
Tuesday: use said recognition to take over the Governership of Texas (rape and pillage Texas for political gain)
Wednesday: use recognition as Governor to make play for President.

Use every trick to become one of the masses. Become a war hero, become a Texan, become a Christian fundamentalist.

Just sounds so scripted.

:clapping: He said he's the greatest of Shrubs!!!

But Ezra, you and I can't understand the whole Christian faith thing, along with Rob

You damn godless commie foreigner.

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There are references to being "born again" or similar concepts at various points in the New Testament, from Christ's secret meeting with the pharisee Nicodemus (John 3:1 and subsequent verses) to various letters of the apostles (e.g. 1 Peter 1:23).

Personally, I dislike the "catch-phrase" way in which it is often used.

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I think Bush's faith is sincere, even though I have real problems with the decisions it leads him to make. I think the rise to power as Ezra outlined was more the product of Karl Rove's strategic planning than Bush's. I think Bush is too naive to come up with that plan himself. Rather, I would suspect his faith played perfectly into Rove's designs.

I'm not sure how sincere Kerry's faith is, but I'm not sure I care, either. As a person of faith, I think it's more important to ask how my vote will affect people, will they be harmed or helped by my vote, more than what the abstract beliefs of the candidate are. To me it's what the person _does_ that counts.

Mark

Mark, what has lead you to believe in Bush's faith?

For the record... I don't attribute Bush with having the burden of intelligence. Rove/Cheney/Rumsfeld and whomever else pull the strings. I never think of Bush as anything more than a puppet.