Noooooo.......

There's a perfectly good thread elsewhere (in "The Nation," I think, or perhaps "General Discussion") to go on about this.

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Yeah we aren't talking about Doobies or places like that. One of the appeals of places like the above is that you can get a good meal at a reasonable price. We rarely go out to eat as it is and usually it's just to 'get out of the house' and when we do we don't want to spend an arm and a leg.

I don't think we have many "family restaurants" in the neighborhood, do we? There's Pinky's, sort of, and McDonald's, and that's it -- and some folks would quarrel with the characterization of McDonald's as a family restaurant. So where is a couple with child(ren) supposed to go to get a decent meal with the kids?

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Well, apparently, only if the families are happy to pack the children up in a CAR, dragging around some obnoxious stroller, and drive elsewhere to have an early evening meal in a restaurant that happens to house a bar.

Those suburbs sound great.

McDonald's isn't a family restaurant and I wouldn't argue with you about it.

There are places for families to eat but I don't know any that go out of their way to encourage families like Mama Palma's does in Fitler Square.

pumpkin market!

and pico de gallo, and govindas, and jamaican jerk hut. all of those places are fine for families as far as i can tell. divan is kind of too nice, although we were there with a baby a couple months ago. the balkan restaurant.

people think of 'family restaurants' as large chains having fake license plates on the walls and a cheezy theme, but really as long as a place isn't fine dining like pumpkin or apamate (at dinner), why couldn't you take kids there?

i mean, i guess this is a different topic than the 'kids in bars' topic. nevermind.

Divan and Apamate are very kid-friendly. And really, like joepsu said, if the kid's not freaking out, who cares? The last time we went to Divan they gave our son all the hummus he could eat (he ate a little too much, but I won't go into details) and then one of the waiters scooped him up and took him around the restaurant (kind of odd actually but well-intentioned). Anyway, I feel all of these places are fine for kids and we're usually out of there by 7:00...

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I refuse to feed my children Mc Donalds - I do not want to bring them up thinking McDonalds is either good food or a treat. We have always brought our children out to eat in the early evenings (Cafe Laos, Mama Palms, Vietnam etc) in addition to aformentioned brunch bar /reastaurants(forgot For Petes Place- love that place!). I think it is important to teach them what good food is and how to act in a public places. Our sojourns are not lenghty- fast service is key and my younger guy is certainly less civilised than our first, despite our admirable attempts with him.

I guess I'll add my 2 cents.

As a parent who occasionally takes my son to pubs (he's been to Monk's, Rembrandt's, the Standard Tap, Johnny Brenda's, and the Sidecar), I can confirm that he is most certainly NOT listening to anyone's conversation other than his own in those establishments. Feel free to discuss whatever you will if there are kids around. Parents can chose to leave if they are uncomfortable. That's never happened to us, but I can see where it might. We got sort of close one day at the Sidecar when someone entered who was potentially dangerously drunk, and was actually kicked out immediately.

I would NEVER, not EVER, take my child to a pub at night. Like most other reasonable parents, I am putting him to bed at that time.

Being able to take him to social places with friends where good food is served and I can get one beer has occasionally saved my sanity. Parenting can be a lonely business.

I have taken him to the Sidecar for dinner twice, but at 5pm when basically there are very few people in there. I would think that any local establishment that is empty at 5pm would be grateful for the business. Also think that what is basically a wholesome dinner with friends and family should be welcome in the neighborhood. And we sit at a table, not at the bar. I have never seen him disturb other patrons.

Parents are part of the community of people living around, as are people who don't have children. If you live in Philly, you probably live in a rowhouse, and getting along with people close to you should be one of your priorities. Parents need to be respectful of what their children are doing, certainly! People without kids also need to be tolerant of children. They are your neighbors.

I can tell you the difference between appropriate and inappropriate bar patronage for children from my own experience growing up:

My parents occasionally took me to a pub for lunch. We would all get a hoagie. My parents would have a beer with their hoagie. I would have a shirley temple, which I loved. I learned what restaurant eating was all about. Also learned that alcohol in moderation is fine. My grandfather, when babysitting me, would take me to Eddie's Tavern. Eddie's did not serve food. He would sit me at the table with a coke, and proceed to get drunk at the bar. Inappropriate. So there you have it in my opinion, fully compliant with the law and most urban social mores.

I was actually thinking of those diner-like, serve-no-alcohol "family restaurants" that one sees outside hip urban areas. The various BYOB places didn't occur to me as being either "bars" or "family restaurants." And I confess to having completely forgotten Govinda's and the Jamaican Jerk Hut, probably because I'm oriented to places west of 19th Street.

Sounds to me as though everyone is agreed that little kiddies should be out by their bedtimes, and older children should be brought to the "gastro pub" types of places only with care.

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