I'm contemplating renting a house with my two year old in the area and am wondering how it is, safety-wise? I've lived all over the city, but never there, so any input would be great!

We live relatively close to 16th and Fitzwater and walk up and down 16th to get to and from Center City. We've never had any problems and have definitely noticed more people out and about lately, which increases my overall perception of the safety of the neighborhood. Once in a while I'll run into a homeless person or two requesting money (very politely) but I would expect that anywhere in the city.

Also, if you look through the SWCC threads on this board, you'll find one discussing planning a community playdate at the Marian Anderson playground on 17th starting in the Spring. Based on the responses, it's clear that many people in this area are raising young children here...

I lived in South Philly mostly all my life (1959 through 2002), and one thing we all knew: don't go into neighborhoods like 16th and Fitzwater! It may be diff now with all the new development, but I was mugged once in that area in 1980.

It's safe to say things have changed quite a bit around here in the past 26 years. I recommend you spend some time in this area during the day and evening before making your decision...and take the advice of others with a grain of salt.

I think he was probably right as recently as 2002. There is, or used to be, a fairly scary grouping of lawn chair denizens on the north side of Catharine Street just east of 16th. I also recall that's the reason the ground floor windows on the Fitzwater side of the corner Universal property are blocked solid.

Does anyone know what's up with Southwest Belmont? It looks less open-for-business than it used to.

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I would be between 16th and 17th...I work at 20th and Lombard, so I'm around. I was just wondering, I guess how far along is the gentrification. I lived in Northern Liberties way before it is like it is now. I just need somewhere where rent is affordable (under $900!) and close to Center City, where my life is based. And now with having a child, I do need it to be halfway decent, although I understand I live in a city.

Thanks for the comments so far!

lb - that group of lawn chair dwellers is still thriving when the weather is nicer. I have been pretty wary of 16th and Cath because of them and I live right around the corner from there, on 15th. As JillyS says 16th street is ok to walk at the moment, but once spring comes that shady crew will be back.

All in all, the are is great though, I love it here. As in any major city you need to watch your back and have street smarts.

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I think 16th and Fitz is an incredible part of town for the money. As for the drugs, I would say report that without telling anyone on www.ppdonline.org under "reports." Make that a once a week good citizen effort. That way the police get a baseline of reports with descriptions and activity from which to plan a sting.

They will do it, too. But we are competing for resources with the west side of Tasker. The upper twenties of Tasker, Moore, Reed. You get the picture.

Plus, going to every SOSNA meeting and asking what Universal plans to do THIS year on the mass of properties they own in that area is critical. Ask Verna, ask Street, ask the journalists, tell them all that hey, we've spent millions in HUD block grant money to Universal to get this property and renovate it, and instead, it attracts more drug activity than any other spot above Washington Ave.

Oh, yes, and SOSNA wants to give a good portion of the $100K econ. dev. grant money to the area of South St. where Universal owns all this blighted property.

Which would sort of be like putting the money in a neat pile and setting fire to it.

No one would see it again, would see it mentioned in an annual report, since Universal doesn't produce one, would see receipts, or anything but lots more hot air and race card poker.

So just to bring the subject back to my question, it seems like the consensus it that me living there by myself with a child is ok, as long as I use my Frankford-born and bred street smarts, right? I don't really know what all the other talk is about, but I like to be involved, so after I get settled, I will definitely be going to meetings and stuff. Have to move my focus from crazy No-Libs....

Any other moms in the area need friends?