I didn't say it will crash, I said it was at risk. Nobody can predict what will happen. Anybody can see that the neighborhood has been rotting from the north, down. The actual Girard Estates homes will probably be spared just because they are so valuable. You are correct, the 2400 thru 2600 blocks are currently solid. The crime is now down to Wolf St, imho. Could these neighborhoods come back? I don't know. But I do know it's more difficult to turn a bad neighborhood around than to destroy a good one. The general trend for this neighborhood lately is that it's been getting worse, not better. I would rather live at 15th & Porter, but I would rather buy at 17th & Wash (north of Wash, of course).

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"When you operate in an overbuilt metropolis, you have to hack your way with a meat ax."

to all those who think the 2100-2200 blocks of 15 and 16 streets are in jeapordy.....read on......


my wife and i just bought in this area (2100-2200 blocks of 15th and 16th) a year ago and have already seen changes....for the good! yes, the area was a little rough around the edges with trash blowing freely around the streets and being just blocks from some more questionable areas. but even after a few organized block clean-ups and some friendly neighbor interactions, our block has already shown signs of positive change. people are making more of an effort to clean-up and have expressed how much they love where they live and care for it. some of these residents have lived in their houses for 30+ years and have seen a lot of things happen. they are older or wanting to make things better but need someone to lead the way first. if you start to lead, it may be lonely at first, but people are guaranteed to eventually and gradually come out and help. they just need someone to start the ball rolling and exhibit that they are not alone. a lot of people won't do anything because they feel it won't change anything. if they see others care and are making the effort, THEY WILL HELP. and this doesn't apply to just picking up trash, it goes for reporting crime and helping each other out.

also, we have seen several...not one, but several....landlords change the way they approach their properties. they are realizing that this area's value has gone up, which leads to 1 of 2 things: they can now get higher rents, or they can sell for profit. either way, they are putting money into their properties and fixing them up....new doors, new walls, new windows, new paint, new appliances, new facing... you name it, we're seeing it. these houses are getting fixed up and other landlords will soon realize what's going on and start protecting their investments, too, so they can compete.

here are some facts:
- we know of a new community group forming for residents south of passyunk, including the 2100, 2200, etc. blocks of 15th, 16th, etc.
- we know that forms have been collected for new tree plantings.
- we know that guerin rec center on 16th is slated for major rennovations this spring, thanks to help from the Horticultural Society.
- we know that the owner of the South Philly Tap Room is a serious supporter of this area and has already started his own work in fortifying his block and the blocks surrounding him, meeting with city reps and trying to get their help. he REALLY is a good source of help. he really cares.

i wouldn't worry about those 3 or 4 houses selling on 16th for low prices. did you see the photos of inside those houses? i mean absolutely no offense to the owners, but there's a reason they aren't going to get a lot for those places and it has nothing to do with what's OUTSIDE the house.

yes, a lot needs to be done, but this area is prime for a great turnaround. real estate is more affordable here than anywhere else in the city, it's close to the subway and other major-means of transportation, it's nestled between two great and powerful communities (girard estates and passyunk square). in fact, passyunk square wasn't always the best place to live, but the residents there worked very hard to protect their community and beautify it. we can do that, too. what do you need to do? you need to NOT sit on your ass and see the bad things happening around you (because this is life, my friend, and they're always going to happen) and just say "oh well, the area's going to hell". you need to be a part of the solution. and thankfully, our area is ripe for being solved. it really is. please help out and you'll be rewarded along with the rest of us. and believe me, there is a large group of us that are ready to make things better.

we promise to keep you all up-to-date on our progress and we welcome anyone and everyone that wants to help protect our area and fight crime and just make things better and safer.

thanks for reading this. please join in.

I have stayed out of this thread for a long while because it hits close to home. My family lived on 1400 Jackson for a long time. We currently are selling a house on 2200 Carlisle. My friends and I hung out in Guerin Rec and they are all from that neighborhood.

2200 16th is crap. The good neighbors have already moved out and those who are left will leave soon as well. I know the people that live up that street. They are gone before 2007. Can the neighborhood be saved? Possibly. I would bet against it. Too many problems exist that I have not the time nor the inclination to type out. I hope it does improve. I saw what happened to my boyhood home of 2100 McKean and do not wish for another of my old haunts to turn out so bad. Based on all the information I have, it simply is not going to get better.

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The Phils are champs, go phuck yourself!

i certainly hope you read my post, the one before your last. there are hardcore facts that this area IS changing for the better and time and effort are the key ingredients. i am truly sorry to hear about your bad experiences, but there is definate hope for this area. we actually know a lot of people moving into the area, and they want to help, too. it's never too late. especially for this area.

I hope you read my post that I personally know the people moving out of there and that the problems with drugs and petty crime are not going away. You may have just moved there but my family still has business and personal interests on every single block in that neighborhood and it is time to move on.

You used the word facts in the beginning of your post and the word hope near the end. You should have only used hope.

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The Phils are champs, go phuck yourself!

i am just real sorry to hear your cynicism. it's true i use the word hope. sometimes that's all you have. but not in this case. yes, there are hard facts that crime is a problem. but we also know that there are facts that progress is not only coming, but already started.

i wish your family and business interests well. i'm not here to argue things. just stating that there is change happening already and anyone interested in the same should get on board.

Well, as someone who has known the goings on in that neighborhood my whole life---and I still know what goes on---I would highly recommend anyone who is looking to move to look elsewhere.

I wish you the best of luck with your new home.

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The Phils are champs, go phuck yourself!

well, thanks.
and i hope that people looking to move here would think twice about taking advice from someone who doesn't even live here anymore, and keep in mind that crime is up all over the city, not just in our area. it's a citywide problem. one example: i have a friend who was recently mugged in rittenhouse square and shot. now i would say that rittenhouse square is not a bad area. but it doesn't matter. it reaches all areas. and it's our collective apathy that lets it.

They should listen to someone who just bought a house there and will talk about hope and blah blah blah. They should not listen to anyone who owns property, knows about 7 cops who patrol those streets, is friendly with the politicos who are elected from that area, lived and walked those streets their whole life, and has a personal relationship with tons of people who live in and around there. Yes, I live in a cave in Utah. No one corresponds with me on the phone or email to tell me about neighborhood events. I never return home and if I did my family would never discuss the family's business with me. I am a clueless oaf.

They should listen to someone who will give a biased view of a neighborhood they just moved into and thus are inclined to talk that neighborhood up as a means to justify their decision and feel good about themselves.

Are we done now? Your call.

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The Phils are champs, go phuck yourself!

it's people with negative attitudes like yours that add to the degradation of an area and contribute to the problem.

yeah, we're done.