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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2005, 04:35 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Other counties got slammed because they never reassessed. Sure, they didn't use market valuations, which was a problem, but more importantly, homes valued at the same amount were paying drastically different tax bills.

I was in high school when Delco reassessed for the first time in thirty years. The problem was that reassessments were stagnant and millage rates went up every year. This was the case even though the county occassionally changed the way it assessed new construction.

When my parents bought their home for $35,000 in 1975, houses were assessed at 15% of their sale price. So, their assessment was about $5000.
The houses up the street were built 10 years early for $20,000 and they were assessed also at 15% (i.e. $3000). Later, as housing values rose, the county changed its formula to 2% of sale price. So many new homes that were being constructed for $200,000 to $300,000 each in the 90s were assessed at $4000 - less than my parents 20 year old house which was worth much less than new construction at the time.

1960s House assessed at $3000 - taxes in 1995 - roughly $2000
My parent's 1970s house assessed at $5000 - taxes in 1995 - roughly $3500
New house assessed at $4000 - taxes in 1995 - roughly $3000

When the county finally decided to reassess, the first two houses ended up in the same place (about $2800) and the new houses received a deserved increase to reflect their value - which was roughly twice as high as my parents. Now, those newer houses are valued at $350,000-$450,000 and their taxes are $6000-$8000 per year. My parent's house is valued between $225,000 and $275,000 and their taxes are roughly $4000 per year.

BUT, although DELCO did not use full valuations (which they now supposedly do), they NEVER reassessed, which was the real issue.

Philadelphia makes an attempt to reassess every single year. Whereas they keep their millage the same, our "values" go up every year - some years more than others - some neighbhorhoods more than others - to keep track of changing values. I prefer Philly's system to a stagnant assessment system any day.

So, I am not entirely convinced that we "need" a full valuation system as Glancy claims. And, I am not convinced of their motives. If my assessment has been increasing every year and more than most people's because I live in Northern Liberties - I should be shouldering more and more of the city's tax burden compared to folks in other areas where values have not gone up as fast, and as a result, have not received tax increases as steep as mine.

I don't know if the courts will ever challenge the status quo. And if they did, we'll have a reassessment. Delco didn't proactively change their assessment system - they waited until they were ordered to. I think Philadelphia makes a good faith effort to reflect changes in values today based on the yearly changes in assessments. Thus, I do think this is shaping up to be a back door tax increase.

Our only hope is that council is so afraid of letting this go through that they back down.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2005, 04:09 PM
ljlong ljlong is offline
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In South Philly, you would think that the areas with the most modest incomes and property values are the areas with the highest percentage of owners behind on their property taxes. Not so.

If the city does not collect these overdue amounts, those who do pay have to make up the difference. You have to pay for this uncollected tax. Is this fair?

Why is 19146 overdue at a rate of 37%, but 19145 is overdue at 21%? That is quite a large difference.

19147, Southwark, is only 15.8%, which is not small, but certainly significantly less. It seems only sensible that the city put all the overdue accounts in 19146 to collection at once without delay before interest rates go up any further and renovation cools.

I don't know that there is a single residential property worth over $500K in Point Breeze, unlike SWCC.

I think Council should pass a law that no zip code should carry more than a 15% tax delinquency rate per year, or else the accounts are transferred to a private collection agency like Linebarger. Rendell did this.

Rendell sold the city debt to a private collection firm for something like $80 million and balanced the budget.

Plenty of these overdue accounts have never been more valuable, but the city has to collect the money or auction the property for payment.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2005, 04:11 PM
ljlong ljlong is offline
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Default Property Tax Delinquency is too high in SP and city

This is a partial look at the list from www.hallwatch.org under real estate:

"* These records come from the Philadelphia Department of Revenue. Hallwatch is not responsible for the accuracy of the Revenue Dept.'s records. They are current as of August 29, 2005.

Zip Neighborhood Total delinquency Delinquency count Total properties Percent

19132 North Philadephia West $36,446,755.29 11,073 20,794 53.2
19121 Fairmount North $21,227,048.14 8,059 16,972 47.5
19133 North Philadelphia East $12,498,925.51 7,007 14,782 47.4
19140 Nicetown $34,463,380.02 11,155 23,556 47.4
19143 Kingsessing $41,290,238.98 11,423 25,480 44.8
19139 West Market $25,444,477.49 7,341 16,505 44.5
19104 West Philadelphia $23,145,355.11 4,977 12,040 41.3
19138 Germantown East $18,101,750.62 5,032 12,840 39.2
19131 West Park $20,844,063.68 5,885 15,026 39.2
19122 Spring Garden North $8,586,234.17 3,330 8,587 38.8
19141 Logan $14,124,532.59 3,948 10,347 38.2
19144 Germantown $23,560,233.69 5,089 13,538 37.6
19146 Schuylkill $16,448,731.29 6,812 18,244 37.3
19134 Richmond $23,184,975.40 8,104 25,544 31.7
19126 East Oak Lane $5,428,509.86 1,537 5,074 30.3
19125 Kensington $8,851,716.77 3,535 11,690 30.2
19142 Paschall $10,230,930.75 3,276 11,392 28.8
19150 West Oak Lane $8,804,783.31 2,507 9,121 27.5
19151 Overbrook $9,649,540.54 2,764 11,371 24.3
19119 Mt. Airy $10,317,766.71 2,194 9,719 22.6
19123 Spring Garden South $5,092,043.48 1,061 4,716 22.5
19145 Point Breeze $9,885,552.49 3,808 18,048 21.1
19129 East Falls $10,402,423.15 835 3,982 21.0
19148 Passyunk $11,689,187.73 4,237 21,304 19.9
19124 Frankford $14,896,682.45 4,512 23,147 19.5
19137 Bridesburg $2,399,753.05 740 3,945 18.8
19153 Eastwick $4,714,591.40 733 4,191 17.5
19120 Olney $10,184,073.25 3,677 21,802 16.9
19147 Southwark $9,068,392.83 2,445 15,490 15.8
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2005, 04:14 PM
sciban sciban is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljlong
I don't know that there is a single residential property worth over $500K in Point Breeze, unlike SWCC.
There are PLENTY of properties worth over $500K in 19147, as that is the zip code for about 40% of Wash West!
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2005, 04:24 PM
ljlong ljlong is offline
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Default Why are the rates so different?

Point Breeze as part of 19145, which is still much less than 19146. I don't know of a single $500K property in what is known colloquially as "Point Breeze."

You have an argument for equal treatment. Why should 19146 get a break? People are of a higher average income, yet the city's collection rate is better, stricter, in certain places.

Why are the rates so different? What could be the explanation for vastly different rates of delinquency? Is it people, or is it the city?

Last edited by ljlong : 11-05-2005 at 12:59 PM.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2005, 04:30 PM
ljlong ljlong is offline
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You raise a good point. Arguably, 19146 and 19147 share similar attributes so why is the city treating property tax collection differently or allowing such a large percentage difference to exist?

How do you 19147 people feel about that? I can quit paying my taxes and not expect a problem. My neighbor is about seven years overdue. My other neighbor about four or five, because they haven't done probate.

You guys are expected to make up for that slack. How's that working for ya?
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