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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2007, 09:06 AM
MayfairMeat MayfairMeat is offline
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Originally Posted by Malloy View Post
Wait till MLK is filled with residents. More thugs are moving in to compete for the drug biz. (quite lucrative a few 'steps' from CC)

Once SWCC is fully gentrified, Hawthorne will be 1 of 2 areas in CC proper that will service the CC druggies. You cant gentrify/clean up these new projects for at least 20 years...
The PPD is always looking for lots to hold their vehicles. Sounds like a perfect place for a police ministation. That will ruin the party.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2007, 09:10 AM
MayfairMeat MayfairMeat is offline
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Given the proximity to CC and the 'project' nature of MLK you will be dealing with trouble indefinitely IMO. That will never leave. Just work it make it better than the old MLK.
Unless MLK mysteriously burns down to the ground (hint: do it before the cameras come).

I know, sadist thought. Maybe the neighborhood can chip in for those Osama-lookin security guys that you see in front of the gold-plated jewelry stores? They must be effective because I rarely hear about one of these stores getting robbed. Can setup little HVAC-equipped booths on the corner along with the cameras... so not only are there cameras watching there's also big guys in the area on the street also watching with a loaded weapon and the safety off.
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And this is why you should donate to PACCA, not PETA:

In September, PETA made headlines in Vermont and across the nation for asking
Ben & Jerry's ice cream to use human breast milk in their ice cream, instead of cow milk
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2007, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by nativephl View Post
Green, don't worry you're not alone -- The same thing happened in my neighborhood!! I think the government's way of thinking is that if you mix a low income segment of the population with not so low income population -- The low income segment will try to improve their situation and learn how to behave like (somewhat) normal human beings. I'm curious to see how this all plays out in Philly.
It really depends on how you do it.

Putting 2 consecutive blocks of 'po in a moderate-income neighborhood does not work.

Putting one family who is 'po surrounded by people who all work is effective. It would turn out better if Philadelphia had swallowed up all of its suburbs, then the program would make it much easier to disperse people and not allow them to cluster up and cling on to each other.

That's why I'm more of a proponent of making that a national program rather than allowing the poor to concentrate in cities and bog them down with their expensive problems when they can be relocated to areas which are less expensive, have ample jobs available and can reduce government costs.
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In September, PETA made headlines in Vermont and across the nation for asking
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2007, 10:29 AM
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2007, 12:11 PM
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It's funny you say that, I've been pitching that concept for years to my professors and they either are unfamiliar with the idea or look at me like I'm crazy.

Regardless I think it's patently unfair that city's have been accepted by the rest of society as recepticles for the impoverished. When you have three of the wealthiest counties in the US next to one of the poorest, something is awry. The onus of caring for this regions poor should be spread throughout the metropolitan area. Chi town got it right by annexing their rich neighbors. Incidentally they also have a program to relocate public housing tenents to suburban areas.

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Originally Posted by EastChestnut View Post
It really depends on how you do it.

Putting 2 consecutive blocks of 'po in a moderate-income neighborhood does not work.

Putting one family who is 'po surrounded by people who all work is effective. It would turn out better if Philadelphia had swallowed up all of its suburbs, then the program would make it much easier to disperse people and not allow them to cluster up and cling on to each other.

That's why I'm more of a proponent of making that a national program rather than allowing the poor to concentrate in cities and bog them down with their expensive problems when they can be relocated to areas which are less expensive, have ample jobs available and can reduce government costs.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2007, 12:18 PM
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Bring on the cameras. I don't care who watches me walking down the street. Streets are PUBLIC. There are cameras in stores, airports, schools, & office buildings. If I owned a business, I'd want cameras.
There's the difference. People can choose not to go into private businesses if they don't want to be monitored on camera. But in public you can't avoid them. And there's a big difference between cameras in a store monitored by a security guard or just on tape in case, and cameras constantly monitored by a quasi-military gov't agency.

Quote:
Seriously, if you have nothing to hide, why should you care about another camera.
Maybe people do have something to hide. For example, the guy in DC who was blackmailed by a DC police officer because the cop got video of him going into gay clubs. He wanted to hide that, but it wasn't illegal.

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Infringing on free society - give me a break. Americans don't know what not being "free" is.
Have you ever been anywhere else? The illusion of freedom in America is just that. There are other places where you are much more free. Go to Amsterdam sometime. No, it's not just a bunch of druggies and hookers. It's an overall attitude of acceptance for what others do that doesn't affect you. The attitude in America is that people should bend to the rule of norm, and be forced to by law if necessary. That's not real freedom.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2007, 12:44 PM
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Its not unique to philadelphia.
Queen Village. Society Hill. No.Libs. Everywhere that there is an expensive home in Philadelphia, there is section 8 housing.
PHA has been doing the experiment for years. Its a pretty simple formula-a mass of poor people next to a mass of rich people lowers the economic statistics for each district, tract, and zipcode, thus giving the city better chances to receive federal funding; its also a great tool to ensure that wards remain a certain political affiliation-although less of a concern in Philadelphia, gentrification usually brings about a change in political party concentration within the area.
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Originally Posted by dogfaceboy View Post
I know that. I live in the former Tasker Homes area AKA Grays Ferry.

I'm not debating the issue. It's pointless and won't change a thing.

Hawthorn is different than any other area with public housing in Phila., at least to the best of my knowledge.
This has not been done before.
5-600,000 dollar homes within a stones throw of section 8 housing.

All units are new yet worlds apart in economic status.

Now do you see how it's an experiment? That's really all I was commenting on.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2007, 01:50 PM
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i know where Tasker homes are located but where is this MLK located. My luck its around the corner from me and i dont even know it. I agree a previous comment that these druggies should not be put up at our expense in a home that is nothign but an back door pharmacy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dogfaceboy View Post
I know that. I live in the former Tasker Homes area AKA Grays Ferry.

I'm not debating the issue. It's pointless and won't change a thing.

Hawthorn is different than any other area with public housing in Phila., at least to the best of my knowledge.
This has not been done before.
5-600,000 dollar homes within a stones throw of section 8 housing.

All units are new yet worlds apart in economic status.

Now do you see how it's an experiment? That's really all I was commenting on.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2007, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by alesis View Post
Its not unique to philadelphia.
Queen Village. Society Hill. No.Libs. Everywhere that there is an expensive home in Philadelphia, there is section 8 housing.
PHA has been doing the experiment for years. Its a pretty simple formula-a mass of poor people next to a mass of rich people lowers the economic statistics for each district, tract, and zipcode, thus giving the city better chances to receive federal funding; its also a great tool to ensure that wards remain a certain political affiliation-although less of a concern in Philadelphia, gentrification usually brings about a change in political party concentration within the area.

I don't know of any low income housing projects in Society Hill and I'm not familiar with most of the NL area. I was commenting on South Philly for the most part.

Queen Village is or at least seems alot larger than Hawthorne and if you look acroos the streets you'll see a park and playground on Wash, for the most part boarded up shells on one side and from memory a church on the other.

Queen village was not the same type of absolute ghetto that Hawthone became and it was developed from South St. to Wash over many,many years.

Yes, there's a low income project in QV but it looks like a different can of worms than Hawthorne's more recent developement. Both the projects and the 5-600,000 properties were built almost within the same time frame.
It just looks like a completely different animal to me. Maybe it looks like buisness as usual to others and not me.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2007, 11:20 PM
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Have you ever been anywhere else? The illusion of freedom in America is just that. There are other places where you are much more free. Go to Amsterdam sometime. No, it's not just a bunch of druggies and hookers. It's an overall attitude of acceptance for what others do that doesn't affect you. The attitude in America is that people should bend to the rule of norm, and be forced to by law if necessary. That's not real freedom.
Actually yes - I've lived in different countries in Europe and am actually a dual national, EU/US. Many members of my family were killed and/or deported by the Soviet Red Army and others had to flee for years before ending up here and only during recent years have been able to return to the country they left over 50 yrs ago. I have a degree in 20th Century European History. I can tell you a lot about freedom.
I actually used to live two hours from Amsterdam and have been there many times. In Europe, they don't have the same issues with crime because they don't have such a large population of poor that have been shuffled through the system for 100 years. Clearly, the systems here don't work. You have a large population of poor that ostracize themselves from the norms of society and govt's that pretend it's not going on or put bandaid repairs on drugs and crime in order to better the funding they receive to line their pockets and those of their cronies.
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