Obama Apologizes to Hillary for 'Monster' Remark - Page 2 - PhillyBlog

GOP65 · #11 (**permalink**) 05-15-2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bulworth67

PS-you never answered the question why there is currently not one single republican legislator (House or Senate) who is black.

Sorry for not responding immediately, I forgot you take priority over most things in todays world. OK, You got me.....please enlighten me. Could it have anythng to do with those racist D's that refuse to vote for Obama also use the same tactics in general elections combined with the racists on the other side give an AA candidate no chance? Or is there just no such thing as a credible AA R in your eyes? Or is an AA that's an R considered a sellout?

seand · #12 (**permalink**) 05-15-2008, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOP65

Sorry for not responding immediately, I forgot you take priority over most things in todays world. OK, You got me.....please enlighten me. Could it have anythng to do with those racist D's that refuse to vote for Obama also use the same tactics in general elections combined with the racists on the other side give an AA candidate no chance? Or is there just no such thing as a credible AA R in your eyes? Or is an AA that's an R considered a sellout?

Alan Keyes is an arch-conservative's wet-dream on the issues. I do sometimes wonder why those very conervative, conservatives have never put their money where their mouth is with him if its not simple racism.

newdealdem · #13 (**permalink**) 05-15-2008, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bulworth67

I don't talk about conspiracies.
Just truth. I just have the guts to call it racism when I see it.
And my eyes are wide open. Are yours?

PS-you never answered the question why there is currently not one single republican legislator (House or Senate) who is black.

Rosita C. Youngblood Democrat on paper Republican in heart. If house votes count she is a republican.

Illiniwek · #14 (**permalink**) 05-15-2008, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seand

He's from Chicago and was elected as an Obama delegate. John Street (I think) was elected as a delegate for Clinton (he ran at least). Meeks and Obama both served as State Senators from Illinois together. I'm sure they agreed on many issues in the IL State Senate. I know they disagree on others, including dramatically gay issues. Meeks has also said some inflamatory things about the racial divide in Chicago politics, comparing the Daley's dynasty s mayor to "slave masters".

I'm not really seeing Meek's support of his former colleague in the State Senate in the same category as McCain deliberately seeking out the support of Hagee way back in Jan. of 2007.

Obama considers Meeks a "spiritual advisor," campaigned frequently at his church and had him appear in TV ads for his Illinois Senate campaigns.

And lest we think we're talking about ancient history here, Obama also invited Meeks to serve on his presidential exploratory committee.

You're right that the Hagee-McCain isn't in the same category as the Meeks-Obama relationship. The relationship between Meeks and Obama is much closer and goes back much further.

seand · #15 (**permalink**) 05-16-2008, 01:55 AM

You have got to come up with something more substantial than they they are both African American Democratic political leaders form the South Side of Chicago with predictably something of a history of working together on joint issues before you start referring to Meeks as anybody's "spiritual advisor", Il.

Meeks is a socially conservative Baptist whereas Obama's church, United Church of Christ, as everyone knows at this point embraces gays and lesbians in their congregation. Outside of being known as the mayor who authorized dropping the bomb on MOVE, Rev. Wilson Goode Sr. has worked over the years with many different local Philly politicians, both black and white. That doesn't mean you can start calling him their "spiritual advisor" willy nilly.

I did a search and I honestly can't find it. I did note in my searches that while controversially Meeks did call the younger Mayor Daley a "slavemaster" at one point, that Daley fully joins Meeks in his enthusisatic support for Barrack Obama for President. I think that says as much as the connection you are trying to draw between Meeks and Obama does.

Hagee's support for McCain is not important because of anything religious per se. Actually they disagree on social vies. Hagee supports McCain on foreign policy. McCain's connection to Hagee speifically derives strictly from Hagee's emphatic support for a super-militarized version of Israel, including a pre-emptive nuclear strike against Israel.

Quote:

Pastor Hagee's email to members of CUFI :
"CHRISTIANS UNITED FOR ISRAELMembership Update
January 29, 2007
Newsflash!
This morning I had an extended breakfast with Senator John McCain of Arizona. Our topic of discussion was Israel and his candidacy for the Presidency of the United States of America.
Senator McCain's comments concerning Israel are on target! He gets it! While I do not want to put the specifics of our conversation in this update I am glad to report to our leadership and supporters that John McCain is solidly pro-Israel.

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2007/3/5/105015/2167

For Hagee being "solidly pro-Israel" means something from what most of the rest think it does.

Quote:

In "Jerusalem Countdown: A Prelude To war" Hagee has stated that Jews brought the Holocaust upon themselves by rebelling against God and that the Holocaust was God's way of forcing Jews to move to Israel where, Hagee predicts according to his interpretation of Biblical scripture, they will be mostly killed in the apocalyptic Mideast conflict Hagee's new lobbying group seems to be working to provoke and which John Hagee believes to be a necessary precondition for the "Rapture" that will lift Christians, but not Jews, bodily into Heaven to enjoy physical immortality amidst paradise.

So, no Meeks conservative Baptist views on gays or the fact that he chose to once call the Daley clan "slavemasters" really implies absolutely nothing about the type foreign policy Barrack Obama would pursue as President of United State. Hagee's support of McCain, however, is hinged explicitly on expectations of what kind of foreign policy Hagee's CUFI group will expect, no demand in exchange for supporting McCain for President.

That foreign policy:

Quote:

But On July 19, 2006, at a CUFI's Washington DC inaugural event, with GOP Party head Ken Mehlman and US GOP Senators Sam Brownback, Rick Santorum, Kay Bailey-Hutchinson and John Cornyn in attendance ( President George W. Bush sent recorded greetings to the event ) , Pastor John Hagee declared :

"The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God's plan for both Israel and the West... a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation [...] and [the] Second Coming of Christ."

Hagee subsequently wrote, in a Charisma Magazine editorial entitled "The Coming Holy War", that the preemptive attack he advocates should be carried out with nuclear weapons.
In short, Hagee's new lobby -far from promoting any sort of peace- appears to be devoted to promoting war and conflict in the Middle East. Hagee called the 2006 summer Israeli bombing and invasion of Southern Lebannon a "miracle of God" and Hagee, along with CUFI's executive board members, have repeatedly publicly vilified Islam and Muslims.
Similarly, Hagee speaks of the need to "bless" Jews but has written that Jews suffer under a historic, divine curse which is their own fault.
In his 2006 book "Jerusalem Countdown" that has sold over 1.1 million copies so far, Pastor John Hagee writes that Jews themselves are responsible for antisemitism, for their own persecution, and for the Holocaust itself :

"It was the disobedience and rebellion of the Jews, God's chosen people, to their covenantal responsibility to serve only the one true God, Jehovah, that gave rise to the opposition and persecution that they experienced beginning in Canaan and continuing to this very day.... How utterly repulsive, insulting, and heartbreaking to God for His chosen people to credit idols with bringing blessings He had showered upon the chosen people. Their own rebellion had birthed the seed of anti-Semitism that would arise and bring destruction to them for centuries to come.... it rises from the judgment of God uppon his rebellious chosen people." ( "Jerusalem Countdown: A Prelude To War", paperback edition, pages 92 and 93 )

The Holocaust also was part divine mechanism, suggests Hagee in his book, God's way of forcing Jews to move to Israel, where most of them, Hagee thinks, will soon be killed in the apocalyptic war his lobbying group seems to be formed in part to encourage but where Hagee seems to feel they properly belong, as a necessary, magical human precondition that must be in place before the Rapture, that will grant Christians physical immortality in Heaven.

Illiniwek · #16 (**permalink**) 05-16-2008, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seand

You have got to come up with something more substantial than they they are both African American Democratic political leaders form the South Side of Chicago with predictably something of a history of working together on joint issues before you start referring to Meeks as anybody's "spiritual advisor", Il.

Meeks is a socially conservative Baptist whereas Obama's church, United Church of Christ, as everyone knows at this point embraces gays and lesbians in their congregation. Outside of being known as the mayor who authorized dropping the bomb on MOVE, Rev. Wilson Goode Sr. has worked over the years with many different local Philly politicians, both black and white. That doesn't mean you can start calling him their "spiritual advisor" willy nilly.

Neither willy nor nilly:

Quote:

Another person Obama says he seeks out for spiritual counsel is state Sen. James Meeks, who is also the pastor of Chicago's Salem Baptist Church. The day after Obama won the primary in March, he stopped by Salem for Wednesday-night Bible study.

"I know that he's a person of prayer," Meeks says. "The night after the election, he was the hottest thing going from Galesburg to Rockford. He did all the TV shows, and all the morning news, but his last stop at night was for church. He came by to say thank you, and he came by for prayer."

That's from religion columnist Cathleen Falsani of the Chicago Sun-Times in April 2004.

I accept your apology.

Bulworth67 · #17 (**permalink**) 05-16-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOP65

Sorry for not responding immediately, I forgot you take priority over most things in todays world. OK, You got me.....please enlighten me. Could it have anythng to do with those racist D's that refuse to vote for Obama also use the same tactics in general elections combined with the racists on the other side give an AA candidate no chance? Or is there just no such thing as a credible AA R in your eyes? Or is an AA that's an R considered a sellout?

Let me help you out.
There are currently no Republican African American congressmen because an EXTREMELY LARGE part of the GOP constituency are racists. How do I know that? I have a very large amount of republican voters in my division-and they makes no bones about denying it-they say it to my face.

Illiniwek · #18 (**permalink**) 05-16-2008, 11:59 AM

duplicate post

(Curse the $%#@ PB outages!)

seand · #19 (**permalink**) 05-16-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illiniwek

I accept your apology.

The article says that Obama came to becoming more religious himself through activism, through working on "good deeds", that he came to appreciate the historic role of churchs in the black community.

Quote:

"I started working with both the ministers and the lay people in these churches on issues like creating job-training programs, or after-school programs for youth, or making sure that city services were fairly allocated to underserved communities," he says. "And it was in those places where I think what had been more of an intellectual view of religion deepened.
"I became much more familiar with the ongoing tradition of the historic black church and its importance in the community. And the power of that culture to give people strength in very difficult circumstances, and the power of that church to give people courage against great odds. And it moved me deeply."

Meeks is listed as only one of the church leaders that Obama came to know in that fashion. Meeks is in fact mentioned second after a Catholic priest, Rev. Michael Pgleger:

Quote:

"I always have felt in him this consciousness that, at the end of the day, with all of us, you've got to face God," Pfleger says of Obama. "Faith is key to his life, no question about it. It is central to who he is, and not just in his work in the political field, but as a man, as a black man, as a husband, as a father.... I don't think he could easily divorce his faith from who he is."

Just as Obama is not a Baptist, he's not Catholic either though he obviously has worked with both men on community issues and has some respect for both men. Calling someone a "spiritual advisor" implies that Obama is somehow a "follower" and thats not accurate.

So no appology for B.S., sorry.

Non-denomicational shared prayer is an interesting thing in the black community and even more interesting when politics is involved. Our Sherrif here in Philadelphia has an annual "Prayer Breakfast" that is actually one of the big political fundraisers of the year and politicos of all faiths gather for it to see and be seen. That doesn't make Sherrif John Green a "spiritual advisor" to 4/5 ths of City council, for example.

Again the things that I would have concern about Meeks over have nothing to do with what Obama would do as Commander-in-Chief. Hagee's support of McCain is not bout faith - it's based on his belief that McCain would represent his extremist views of a preemptive strike against Iran. Hagee's support of McCain directly impacts how much I think McCain can be trusted to be a rersponsible Commander-in-Chief.

GOP65 · #20 (**permalink**) 05-16-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bulworth67

Let me help you out.
There are currently no Republican African American congressmen because an EXTREMELY LARGE part of the GOP constituency are racists. How do I know that? I have a very large amount of republican voters in my division-and they makes no bones about denying it-they say it to my face.

I'm well aware there are presently none, I just thought you'd have a better explanation then the usual racist rant/excuse you like to toss around on a consistent basis. So, as your division goes so goes the rest of the country? I guess we might as well start the inaguration party plans for McCain then....right?