Belle and I had a good conversation Saturday night about the roles men and women in this day and age. One of the directions of the conversation got into how much more liberated and independent women are and how men respond to this.

Some men are intimidated by strong women who are more educated or who earn more than they do. What are your thoughts on this subject? I know Brooke had some strong opinions on this subject.

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Is this really still an issue? My read on it is that most men (at least those under 50) aren't turned off by successful women. Ambition and brains are attractive qualities, so I don't see how any guy would be intimidated by a woman who possesses either or both. Didn't we all grow up in front of the TV seeing that Enjoli perfume commercial a million times? The one with the woman singing, "I can bring home the bacon/fry it up in a pan/and never, never let you forget you're a man." Who wouldn't like that?

GUys who are intimidated by these sort of things, have some serious insecurity issues, and so do the chicks who make themselves out to be less intelligent then they actually are to attract these sort of guys.

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i have seen the latter not the former. I think, in part, some men feel like a failure if they cannot bring home the bacon. this happens working class families more often. it is an djustment in societal views and norms that takes time. men, for a long time, were defined by how well they could take care of the family. personally, winston I'm sold. but hey, different strokes. that is not to say they are not otherwise good people either but a woman shoudl certianly take advantages of opportunities at hand. as for the intelligence one, I have met a few like that but they generally seem to treat everyone like that, their "women" are the only ones that will put up with it though, unfortunately.

How do you think the more independent nature of modern women has changes relationships?

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What I'm going to say is an example of a girl I dated and by no means applies to all women.
I dated a woman who was successful, she made twice as much as I did and was on the high management rungs of the company she worked for. I'll say I dated women who were "my level" or slightly higher and had no problem with that. (My friends will tell you I would LOVE a sugar mom! Be the stay at home dad going to the golf course, bringing my kids to bars....ah I digress.) Anyway, she turned out to be horrible because of her aggressive go-getter ambitious nature, she thought she was God's gift to everyone. She felt she was above everyone and what she said always mattered. She had the biggest chip on her shoulder and quite frankly was a bitch! Now the irony here is that she tried to date guys but they would leave her. She thought the reason was that they couldn't handle a successful woman and were intimidated. I know the reason now is cause she's full of herself and a bitch.
So, the moral of my story is, some, NOT all, successful women should look at themselves before blaming everyone else.

i'm not intimidated by strong women, i actually prefer them. i don't equate strong to education or salary though, to me it's more of a mindset. some of the strongest women i've met were single moms working in coffee shops or waiting tables. it's not strong to chase after a career if you're not really interested in it, and if money is their only goal i'm not interested either. not because of feeling insecure, i just don't believe that the key to hapiness lies in material wealth. i can see how it's going to be a bit of a hurdle. speaking from experience, my mom worked part-time and did all of the housework. living with women who work full-time i learned that they don't appreciate having to do all of the chores while you do bong hits and watch seinfeld reruns. let's just say my domestication was not a smooth transition. regardless, i think it will work itself out because no matter how long it takes us neanderthals to learn to dust before vacuuming and no matter how many women are completely self-sufficient we need each other. mother nature's the toughest beeyatch of them all.

I'm not sure if I'd be called old-fashioned, but I wouldn't date a man with less education or money than myself.

I found that I have more in common with men who are at least at my level and they understand me in many or most ways.

This is in terms of conversation, common interests, morals, etc.

I also don't like men who make too much money because they think they own a woman whether she has less money than him or is about equal to him. Ego central.

If two people love each other, hopefully all money, education and other issues can be worked out, though.

Some men don't have a problem with dating more successful women because the men can use them. These men make up for insecurity by telling themselves they are getting a better deal because they can take advantage.

I think other men may like more successful women wholeheartedly because they had good relationships with their mothers, and respect a bit of womanly dominance (status-wise).

bun

I think that education and money mean less to me than morals, values, and being good at something in general. I generally don't care what level of education someone has. I think I get this from my father, who did not go to college, but has a musical ability that he works hard at cultivating. I think I would feel that way about anyone who works hard at being the best they can at their craft, since that is something that I also try to do, only in the academic realm. I want to be with someone who can teach me something about something, I really don't care what. It just shows drive and ambition.

Money is a little more difficult, but I make a lot more money than my boyfriend, and most times it works out okay. I think it only really works though when two people don't really care about money that much, and have a "what's mine is yours" attitude. That can only work in a relationship truly centered on love and mutal respect and seeing money as a means to a goal rather than the goal itself.

I think that all people, whether they have "aggresive" personalities or not, have a side to them that wants to be passive sometimes and agressive at others. My boyfriend and I cycle through it all the time, and I have a rather strong personality to peopl who don't know me intimately. I think the women (and men) who don't let that more vulnerable side come through with their partner at some point in the relationship risk coming off as not being as human as the rest of us.

Here are my strong opinions on the subject matter: I've dated men who are pretty liberal socially--it's pretty obvious I'm a feminist and for those of you who haven't met me, I'm a pretty forthright person with a strong personality and people either seem to love me or hate me. Regardless, I've had four long-term relationships. Three of those relationships involved guys who told me that they believed deep down they were intimidated by me because either they thought I was more intelligent than them or because I would be earning more money than them. (The fourth was a brilliant doctor--so it wasn't an issue.)

In the past, I hadn't based dating decisions on what someone did for a living or how much they made but instead if I clicked with them. In fact, so long as they weren't lazy and trying to get a free ride, I could care less what the person I'm dating does or makes. But based on my experiences so far, I'm really hesitant to date someone that wasn't on par with my salary/education.

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