Curious to what you guys thought about Atlantis's ambitious proposal for Penns landing. Seems like Vegas,Hawaii,NYC + Wildwood wrapped up in 5 acres.

$3 Billion dollar project privately funded. I know its very unrealistic but call me crazy I'd love to see this proposal undertaken.

Here's a partial list of what Atlantis proposal entails:

A neighberhood pedestrian promenade area over what is now I-95 to be an extension of Old City(Love that idea)

Seaworld type aqua shows
Hubble space center
laser light show
waterfalls
canoe rides through the lost city of Atlantis
Volcano erupting every 15 minutes(neighberhood association would love that) 8)
log flume + roller coaster
monorail system
submarine ride in atlantis cove
sky tram to camden
Gondola ride
Ferris Wheel
Gaslighted ice skating and hockey rink
kiddy rides
technology park
please touch museum
Ripleys wax museum
art gallery
maritime museum
amphitheatre
20 screen movie theatre complex
300,000 ft. food court
lighthouse
botanical garden
bowling alley
15 restaurants
marina
Broadway theatre
Series of residential/retail towers , one being nearly 700 feet occupying 5,000 new residents.

Did this group cover their bases or what?



http://www.Pennslanding.Phila.gov/pd...sNarrative.pdf

Um, somebody in that company's not doing the math correctly-
if they're working on a 5 acre site plan, they may have problems-

A 300,000 square foot food court takes up 7 acres.

Hmm, as I've said before, it sounds suspiciously like somebody's building a huge proto-casino in Philadelphia, and then counting on Ed Rendell to approve gambling in Philly to keep the Atlantis project from going under.

Gambling is the only way I can figure you're going to make the million dollars a day needed to pay for that thing.

Yep, $1,000,000 per day! A rough estimate for financing 3 Billion dollars:
If paymets are streteched out to 30 years, and if you could get 7% loan, debt service of around $20 million per month; that's just the mortgage.
Add on payroll plus accounts payable and you've got to be looking at somwhere around $30 million per month just to break even!

One Million dollars per day -

Here's one way to visualize that
Atlantis would need 100,000 thousand people spending $3,650 per year in sales to break even.
Here's another
I-95 has 95,000 to 100,000 vehicles per day going past this Atlantis project. You'd need to have EVERY single vehicle stopping and spending $10 every day, 365 days per year.

What could you possibly have at a site that draws people to spend
$30 million per month? Casinos

Plus, the only way you're going to NET $1,000,000 per day consistently
is a casino- there's no other way to get that kind of sustained cashflow.

Hal

Don't get me wrong, I want 'smart' development along the Philly Waterfront..something sustainable over time and that may not be 'big and flashy', but at this point, I am so tired of seeing plans come and go and no action, the thought/sound of someone bringing all of that private capital and then $$ to the city and region...sounds good to me! Especially finally dealing with the barriers to linking Penns Landing to Center City/Old City (I-95 and Columbus Ave.). Lets embrace something..and SOON!

__________________
Heather K

the at lantis seems like another project doomed to failure. flashy but no substance not to mention any basis in reality. i htink the liberty poperty proposal was the best of them. smaller scal but more workable and liveble. of course, just paving over 95 and extending the street grid would work too, something like the inner harbor people's idea.

Maybe Rendell should get off his ass and approve gambling in PA. We can zone for where we want the casinos to be, so as not to disrupt existing neighborhoods. Penn's Landing would be a great site for a casino or several casinos. If ulterior motive of the developers of Atlantis is to hope that gambling will be approved then all power to them! Can you imagine what a boon to the city a casino zone in Penn's Landing would be, especailly with Vegas style casinos the way Atlantis seems to be hoping to emulate. It woud work seeing as we're within hours of several tens of millions of people and, unlike AC and LV, we have tons of other attractions to make Phila a true well-rounded destination. I don't know how well gambling is doing for Detroit but we'd blow Detroit, Vegas, and AC out of the water by virtue of the location of this city and the other attractions of this city alone. Plus, it would solve many problems. Penn's Landing will be filled. A hotel will probably go up in the Disney Hole. The Convention Center will be filled because of people wanting to hold thier conventions here. Plus, there will no longer be a need for the wage tax which means a major barrier for businesses to locate here will be removed. What's Rendell waiting for!

What are the arguments against gambling in PA?

More importantly, what are the arguments against gambling in Philly?

gambling enriches the few at the expense of those who can least afford it. meaning, those more likely to go on welfare and use city services. i'd expect more crime too. what's wrong with gambling? aside from trying to use it to cover up the ills of our state and city (lack of jobs and shrinking working base), it doesn't do much good. i don't like vegas, AC, or windsor. why would i want my city to be one of them?
did anyone catch that mayor street said he'd like to focus on riverfront development?

Do the arguments for outweigh this?

Rendell isn't going to approve gambling in the state for awhile because a bunch of dudes are trying to build a racetrack in Chester and he wants to build stuff here so he sees that as competition (he has a personal investment in it). Ed is, as always, looking out for himself.