Actually, I've heard a lot of Old City residents say that they avoid Starbucks because they prefer to support the local coffee places, so in FACT, there are those who shun Starbucks. The general mindset in Old City is to support locally-owned businesses first and foremost.

You don't live in Old City either, so who are you to say who represents our mindset or has little in common with us?

Every time I pass *any* starbucks (including the Real World one) its packed with people. Any person without some dumbass motive will agree with this fact. His point stands.

Mega, you must be a helluva lot fun at parties, let me tell you.

Dude, we're talking about STARBUCKS here, not politics. This isn't something to go into a flame war about.

CHILL!

While it may be true that Chris doesn't live in Old City, it is also true that he was a prior resident. Not only that, but from what I've ascertained by perusing these boards, he seems to have been involved with OCD among other things. I think he has a pretty good handle on what Old City is about, or at least what it was about back when it was still cool.

And don't give me the success and ubiquitousness of Starbucks as evidence of the superiority of their product, unless you also want to argue that McDonalds makes the best hamburger.

People like Starbucks for the same reason that they like McDonalds, Applebees, or any other chain. They know exactly what to expect. That doesn't make it any better than anything else.

Chris wasn't being elitist with his "shunning Starbucks". He was making it clear the he just prefers to patron independent shops, shops that tend to have more character and, if not always a better product, certainly a less mass-produced one.

But who are the people who are packed in the "Real World" Starbucks? I suspect tourists make up a large part of that crowd, as Arch Street has big tourist traffic. As mja said, they know exactly what to expect.

People go in droves to McDonalds too. Don't tell me they serve the best burgers.

Does Applebees really serve up the best ribs?

Does the Gap offer the best clothing?

The popularity of a product has absolutely nothing to do with its quality.

Starbucks doesn't have the best coffee in the world (it isn't the worst either, I don't want to give that impression), they have just done the best job BRANDING their name to the public.

The question of the original poster had to do with coffee houses in Old City. Chris provided a very valid viewpoint, one that not one but two humble teachers (Geno, that's your profession, right?) happened to agree with. He wasn't being elitist. Why this is such a big deal is completely mind-boggling.

Old City Coffee rocks.

You can all cry about the "does McDonalds make the best burger?" comments, but the answer is YES, to SOME people they do.

Chris can say "I shun Starbucks", all he wants. But he takes it upon himself to speak for others that have not elected him as thier spokesperson and say "WE SHUN STARBUCKS".

Starbucks is in business because people CHOOSE to go there and buy what they offer, especially in Philadelphia where there are 9 million coffee shops all over the place. I have never once seen an empty Starbucks, and you would be retarded to think they are only full of "tourists". In fact, most tourists like to experience something unique to the city they visit to complete the whole "tourist" experience, and that sure isn't Starbucks.

FACT = people in/around Old City do not shun Starbucks as a whole

FACT = Chris Sayer is not a "we"


deal.

Never once did I, or mega say that these much hated chains were better quality. Hell, I dont drink coffee.

Now, some of my friends, who know about and patronize many 'indie' coffee shops (or shoppes -for Sayer) in Philly are mature enough to not bash Starbucks, Quiznos, or Applebees just b/c they are mainstrean chains. Hell, they may even stop at these places in a pinch without having some weirdo grudge.

Sheesh. All this over coffee. You are just a bit touchy, no? Do you work for Starbucks or something?

As for Chris saying, "We shun Starbucks." There are many people here that agree with him. He didn't elect himself spokesman to the massess. He was speaking for people he knew when he lived in Old City, and there are plenty of others that hold similar positions. What exactly is your problem with that?


SOME people do. SOME people don't. Chris is speaking for those who do. You are obviously speaking for those who don't. This is not a big deal. He wasn't being elitist.

As to fact #2, are you SURE? Maybe he's really a radical left wing collective charged with the mission to spread malicious rumors about the Starbucks brand in a twisted hope to see its corporate empire collapse into oblivion.

Oh, all three of them deserved to be bashed. Why Mega is getting his panties in a bunch over a very slight bashing of Starbucks by Chris is a bit puzzling. I suspect if someone else had done it Mega wouldn't have taken such umbrage.

And yes, I have stopped into 2 of those places in a pinch. Everyone is well aware of the problem of Starbucks. It uses its huge corporate empire to push out little independent shops, homogenizing neighborhoods and reducing their charm. That isn't some weirdo grudge. That's a very valid grudge.