PhillyBlog - Philadelphia  

Go Back   PhillyBlog - Philadelphia > Where We Are > Old City/Society Hill
Blogs Map Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Google
 
Web www.phillyblog.com

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2004, 06:06 PM
chrissayer chrissayer is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Overbrook Farms
Posts: 8,542
Default PENN'S LANDING IS DEAD . . . LONG LIVE PENN'S LANDING

Can't believe no one else has commented.

What a wonderful bit of news (and please, read Inga's analysis in today's Inky).

Now, maybe they will actually plan something. I wonder if the city couldn't take over Wallace Roberts Todd's efforts (or pay for them to expand). The neighborhood (along with Fumo, Diccio, etal) paid for the initial study. It should be expanded and used as a basis for further development efforts.

But first. We all need to beat up the council until they pass whatever sort of legislation necessary to protect the waterfront access (public) from Tacony to the Navy Yard (sounds like a song title). We've got a shot now.
__________________
“Cities have the capability of providing something for everybody, only because, and only when, they are created by everybody.” - Jane Jacobs
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2004, 06:16 PM
SurfDog's Avatar
SurfDog SurfDog is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Somewhere between Spruce Hill and Cedar Park
Posts: 6,219
Default Let's move forward

I remember seeing that article this morning, but the election was pressing in my mind ... I thought some background links might be good.

The news article:
Mayor pulls plan for Penn's Landing
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/9922058.htm

The editorial:
Editorial | Penn's Landing Mayor makes right call
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/9922097.htm

The columnist:
Inga Saffron | Finally, a mayor admits obstacles to riverfront plans
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/9922080.htm
__________________
Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. - Robert Orben
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2004, 07:28 PM
josef's Avatar
josef josef is offline
Water Ice Vendor
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 555
Default

is it just me or does everything new end up being some half-assed dead end issue? penn's landing, septa in general, blaah. things move so rediculously slow, its frustrating.
Reply With Quote

Advertisement

   
     
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2004, 07:39 PM
chrissayer chrissayer is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Overbrook Farms
Posts: 8,542
Default

It's just you.

Seriously dear josef, this is one project that should have died a thousand deaths two years ago.

I was amazed when the Atlantis folks were going to plop half of midtown manhattan into our little thirteen acre plot. Glad that one didn't fly.

I actually like what Street is going to do now. Money for refurbishment. Soften it with landscaping. I'd hope they might build a new, better stage.
We don't have much public river left (at least not the Delaware). This little bit has been eaten up by the Museum that Nobody Knows and the Hyatt Where Nobody Goes (plus a GD parking garage). But maybe, if we're lucky, we can salvage what's left.

I know SPM will yell at me for this.
__________________
“Cities have the capability of providing something for everybody, only because, and only when, they are created by everybody.” - Jane Jacobs
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2004, 08:23 PM
Jayfar's Avatar
Jayfar Jayfar is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Southwest Center City aka South Rittenhouse
Posts: 4,065
Default

I was elated beyond words to hear this, but I already had a sense it was going to go this way. There's not a lot wrong with Penn's Landing as it is today, save for its limited accessibility. The Great Plaza is, well, great. It's only about 20 years old (I vaguely recall it cost something like 15 million to construct in the early 80s). A little better landscaping there and along the surrounding riverfront is all that's really needed to spiffy it up.

Sure Penn's Landing is valuable real estate and there's money to be realized from selling to the highest bidder and reaping tax revenue from it (at least after the abatements expire), but it has even greater worth as open public space - something that's virtually impossible to quantify for a cost/benefit analysis. Practitioners of the dismal science will disagree on this point, of course, but when do those guys ever get it right? Hi SPM.

I wouldn't say there should be no new development on Penn's Landing, but I don't think any one mega-project is the way to go.
__________________
Cheers,
Jayfar
--
“I am indeed well aware of the history of Conventional (sic) Hall, both globally and locally, and can assure you that we are carefully exploring avenues for its future.” -- Penn President Amy Gutmann 5 days before demolition began.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2004, 08:43 PM
chrissayer chrissayer is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Overbrook Farms
Posts: 8,542
Default

Some years ago, after being asked to sit in on the citizen's panel advising on the Simon project, I realized that I didn't go to Penn's Landing as often as I might, even though I lived just a few blocks away.

I often wandered down for concerts or on a summer evening but tended to stay away from the crowded weekend activities.

One of my fears (that I often raised with Penn's Landing officials and representatives from the developers) was that the gatherings of all sorts of people would be excluded from the "family entertainment center" because it didn't really want a lot of "dykes on bikes" arriving during the gay pride march or Puerto Ricans arriving on their celebrations. Probably the German and Irish would have been okay, I surmised but damn, those other folks. I could just hear the merchants at the tony stores that were being touted.

And, to get a better flavor of how the Great Plaza was actually used, I went to every weekend's festival - a different group, a different nationality, etc. It was wonderful.

The Great Plaza is (or could be) a crown jewel for Philadelphia.

Thirteen acres - too small, really, for a major development. But, perfect for a gathering place for all our city's citizens. A place for celebration, a place for fireworks, a place for music and a place to dance. A place to watch the river and a place to watch the stars.

As a development site, the barrier that is I-95 works against it; as a park, on the other hand, the barrier provides a buffer between the busy city and the riverfront (or could).

As someone who wants to see Penn's Landing (at least the Great Plaza area) stay undeveloped, I want to thank all the folks who have worked so hard - private citizens, designers who donated their time during the charettes, the Philadelphia Inquirer, University of Pennsylvania School of Architecture, Design Advocacy Group, the list goes on.

And now, it's back to the trenches. A master plan for the area, a guarantee of public access along the length of the river. Let's all call, write, badger, whatever, our mayor and our city council.
__________________
“Cities have the capability of providing something for everybody, only because, and only when, they are created by everybody.” - Jane Jacobs
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2004, 10:02 PM
Hal Hal is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,718
Default Re: PENN'S LANDING IS DEAD . . . LONG LIVE PENN'S LANDING

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissayer
Can't believe no one else has commented.

What a wonderful bit of news (and please, read Inga's analysis in today's Inky).

Now, maybe they will actually plan something.
Oh, I think there's been a plan for quite a while


Penns Landing Atlantis Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by about a year ago Hal
Hmm, as I've said before, it sounds suspiciously like somebody's building a huge proto-casino in Philadelphia, and then counting on Ed Rendell to approve gambling in Philly to keep the Atlantis project from going under.

Gambling is the only way I can figure you're going to make the million dollars a day needed to pay for that thing.

Yep, $1,000,000 per day! A rough estimate for financing 3 Billion dollars:
If paymets are streteched out to 30 years, and if you could get 7% loan, debt service of around $20 million per month; that's just the mortgage.
Add on payroll plus accounts payable and you've got to be looking at somwhere around $30 million per month just to break even!

One Million dollars per day -

Here's one way to visualize that
Atlantis would need 100,000 thousand people spending $3,650 per year in sales to break even.
Here's another
I-95 has 95,000 to 100,000 vehicles per day going past this Atlantis project. You'd need to have EVERY single vehicle stopping and spending $10 every day, 365 days per year.

What could you possibly have at a site that draws people to spend
$30 million per month? Casinos

Plus, the only way you're going to NET $1,000,000 per day consistently
is a casino- there's no other way to get that kind of sustained cashflow.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2004, 02:47 AM
josef's Avatar
josef josef is offline
Water Ice Vendor
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissayer
It's just you.

Seriously dear josef, this is one project that should have died a thousand deaths two years ago.

I was amazed when the Atlantis folks were going to plop half of midtown manhattan into our little thirteen acre plot. Glad that one didn't fly.

I actually like what Street is going to do now. Money for refurbishment. Soften it with landscaping. I'd hope they might build a new, better stage.
We don't have much public river left (at least not the Delaware). This little bit has been eaten up by the Museum that Nobody Knows and the Hyatt Where Nobody Goes (plus a GD parking garage). But maybe, if we're lucky, we can salvage what's left.

I know SPM will yell at me for this.
well.. i'm glad it is just me then. i guess i'm just not as familiar with it as i should be. it just seemed like yet another step backwards, but i guess taking it into account, the size and all something huge like they were talking about wouldnt work.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2004, 04:27 PM
chrissayer chrissayer is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Overbrook Farms
Posts: 8,542
Default

I meant to mention (as Inga did in her column) that the Inquirer and the University of Pennsylvania have received the Waterfront Center's prestigious Clearwater Award for their actions regarding development of Penn's Landing.

From the Center's website:

Quote:
The "Clearwater Award" recognizes the outstanding efforts of an individual or individuals, or by non-profit citizen's organizations, working at the grassroots level for the betterment of their community and its waterfront. Citizen's river cleanup efforts, educational work by organizations to acquaint citizens with urban waterfront environment or history, enterprising artistic and cultural initiatives, or pioneering citizen planning projects are suggestive of the type of voluntary effort the Waterfront Center wishes to recognize.

The award is named for the Clearwater organization that has worked for years to clean up the Hudson River in New York. The grassroots group's program led by Pete Seeger includes environmental education, advocacy and an annual River Revival Festival.
A well-deserved congratulations!
__________________
“Cities have the capability of providing something for everybody, only because, and only when, they are created by everybody.” - Jane Jacobs
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2004, 11:04 AM
dyuter dyuter is offline
Pretzel Vendor
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bucks County
Posts: 23
Default Potential New Penn's Landing Development

My husband and I are realestate investors and we are constantly reading about the developments in Philly. Here is something we found that I wanted to share with everyone here...

http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/view.php?id=8261

Be sure to scroll down towards the bottom of the article for the correct story.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Old City Development Projects chrissayer Old City/Society Hill 114 01-27-2007 12:11 PM
Penns Landing on Hold Again chrissayer Old City/Society Hill 39 07-29-2005 03:39 PM
Penns Landing Concerned Old City/Society Hill 1 01-07-2005 02:10 PM
Penn's Landing redevelopment JenniferKronstain Old City/Society Hill 63 11-29-2004 01:15 PM
Penns Landing, the neglected part of the rivers Resident12 Center City 7 07-22-2004 10:29 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.