[quote=Foxchaser;532660]Overgeneralization.

Some immigrants from Central and South America do emigrate in order to send money to the folks back home -- money they couldn't make where they are, for even the crapola wages they earn for the kind of work most Americans living in the Southwest won't touch is a darn sight better than what they'd make there, if they could make any money there to begin with.

But that part about not assimilating doesn't strike me as describing the folks from Puebla who, while opening shops on 9th Street with lots of signs in Spanish, also post flyers in their windows announcing "Clases de Ingles en Viernes" or signs in the windows of their restaurants asking for help or signs in restaurants asking for help "preferado hablar un poco Ingles".

Assimilation took a generation or two in the 1880s. It took a generation or two in the 1920s. It will take a generation or two today.

To the extent that the immigrants depress wages for jobs Americans WILL take, we need to address that effect. To the extent their presence lets American employers get away with worse working conditions, we should go after the EMPLOYERS -- not the people seeking to work for them. And BTW, the reason every immigration reform effort ultimately fails to reduce the flow is because none of them raise the cost to the EMPLOYER of hiring illegal immigrants. Make it more expensive for an employer to hire an illegal and the flow of illegals will end. Make it harder for an illegal to enter the country to work and the illegals will work all that harder to get in as long as there's work waiting on the other end.

In general, I think our history shows time and again that immigrants DO assimilate and our fears of their diluting the culture are overblown, though. On the contrary, our country and our culture are the richer for their contributions to it.

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Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia
"Jazz and blogging are both intimate, improvisational, and individual -- but also inherently collective. And the audience talks over both." --Andrew Sullivan, "Why I Blog," The Atlantic, November 2008

[quote=Foxchaser;532660]Gee you're ignorant.

I could parse this and tell you the many ways, but I don't feel like wasting my time.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-fkSYDtUY

"Censorship is free advertising by the government"--Federico Fellini

"Do you mind if I smoke while you eat?"

Just a personal nod of the head as to Market Street El's note:
>Assimilation took a generation or two in the 1880s. It took a generation or two in the 1920s. It will take a generation or two today.

My own most recently arrived ancestors were Swedes who got here in the 1880s. When it came to be my turn to care for the family treasures and "archives," I realized that among these were Swedish-language books published in 1902. So although I had always been given to understand that Mor-Mor's people arrived with great enthusiasm for America, and quickly turned themselves to "becoming American," this clearly did not mean that they all entirely quit "being Swedish" - or Swedish speakers/readers.

Of the Germans, English, Welsh, and Scots of my line(s) who got here before my Swedish family, the English and Scots would have had only accent-issues, not actual language problems; the Welsh, I'm not sure about. The Germans arrived in a Pennsylvania that called Germantown, "Germantown" - for a reason !

For the last 20 years, I've been partner in a rare book company. One of the things that's been very interesting to me, looking at handsomely produced late-19th-century American books, is the fact that these often incorporate pages of advertising - and I've more than once seen advertising on these pages (or in other places) that says, "This book is available in English, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Swedish, Russian, and Yiddish."

My suspicion is that in my family, as in most people's immigrant families, the young people caught the language and the customs of their new world most easily and earliest - that the more outgoing among them crossed bridges to the non-Swedish/German/English/Welsh/Scots social and commercial worlds with much less difficulty than the temperamentally more timid did - that there was not just stress between their old cultures and the new when they went outdoors but that there was also stress within their homes as to who among them, individually, was engaging most wisely, most properly, with the world outside the door - - - -

[quote=Hospitalitygirl;532733]And this from a person whose screen name means prostitute.

I'm not ignorant, I'm informed, and have lived personally through everything I have posted about. The truth is not always pretty and people shouldn't have to keep quiet about things just because they are afraid of being labelled racist or not "politically correct." The truth is the truth.

I for one am totally disgusted with Philadelphia as a whole- we're readying our family to move out very soon. We currently live in the N.E. and yes, the neighborhood's "changing"- its not uncommon to see many Caucasians (and others) moving away, and grafitti and abandoned cars and WIC store hang-outs growing alot more prevelantly now.
No joke- the truth be told- our neighborhood used to be cleaner and safer just a few years ago; now if you look down almost any street, can you guess who the neighbors are that never cut their lawns or repair anything? Compaire these property owners (though more likely renters) to property owners that keep their places -or at least try to- looking neat or clean and in good shape. These are the families that have tossed in the towel and move out.
Its nothing more than seeing and saying whats real. Maybe its a cultural difference, and I (we) prefer to quietly move on and, like so many other people and businesses are doing, settle down where we are safe and respected.
Wake-up Philadelphia, and straighten-up. Your killing yourself, literally.

[quote=Foxchaser;533117]
You are not just ignorant, but an idiot.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-fkSYDtUY

"Censorship is free advertising by the government"--Federico Fellini

"Do you mind if I smoke while you eat?"

Here we go, stooping to name calling again. Let the people who are living through it express themselves and the truth as they see it. If you don't agree with someone, why do you have to call them names? No one deserves to be called names on here.

I think Foxchaser is capable of defending itself if it likes, missy, no need for your moral vicissitudes to come in and get all haughty in here.

And as for name calling...I didn't call YOU any names. I did suggest behaviors of Foxchaser, and only called it what it truly is after the lovely insult I was subjected to, where the churlish indignity for that?


Now you can both stuff it.

Foxchaser, don't cross below Cottman Avenue, you don't know what bogeyman awaits you, woooooooo!

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-fkSYDtUY

"Censorship is free advertising by the government"--Federico Fellini

"Do you mind if I smoke while you eat?"

When your family came here in the 1800s, did they demand that government agency employees, the few there were then, learn Swedish? No, they learned English. Did they demand that their children be taught in Swedish? No, they learned English. Did they try to force their culture on their new neighbors? No, they learned the culture of the neighbors they moved in among. Did they demand that banks provide information in Swedish? No, they learned English. Just like my Austrian ancestors who came here in 1754.

Sure the early Germans and Swedes and Austrian spoke their own languages among themselves, but they learned English so they could deal with merchants, doctors, craftsmen, and anyone else they'd need to conduct business with or to provide services to them, or vice versa. And they also knew that speaking their own language in front of people who didn't understand just so they wouldn't know what was said was impolite.

Sure they still read Swedish books, no one says they shouldn't have, And many families brought heirloom Bibles that were in German that are treasures. That's a wonderful thing to have. And no one says they should have forgotten their native tongue.

But they taught their children to be Americans, they didn't expect America to become Swedish. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage, but that's different than expecting the whole country to accede to your foreignness. Every time I hear or see "press one for English," I want to scream, "Yes, I want English, this is the United States of America, dammit."

What a wild tangent you took this one on.

When people emigrate here, whether in the 1860's or the 1950's or now, generally the immigrants who are middle-aged find it a little more difficult to adapt to the language, but if there are children, they almost always adapt quickly and become interpreters for the parents. It has happened time and time again. The children who came here with their parents, and the subsequent family born here, generally are assimilated quickly. The older generation will always have a problem--but guess what? It isn't the end of the world, or your life or anything like that.

Besides, what is wrong with making some transitions easier? It sure beats the hell out of being put into 'dummy' classes just because you don't know the language yet.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-fkSYDtUY

"Censorship is free advertising by the government"--Federico Fellini

"Do you mind if I smoke while you eat?"