I try not to say Summerdale...I always get this look from people who know. Like I survived something. The people I knew from back there...when I see them it's like we all witnessed some tragedy.

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175k does sound really low for Turnersville. By the way, "Turnersville" is Washington Township. Moving there has some pros and cons. The obvious good things is that it'll be safer and quieter than where you are now. Your car insurance will go down - but probably not as much as you think. Obviously no wage tax, but I guarantee your property taxes will triple (or maybe more). Probably around 4 grand for a house that price. You'll be driving a lot more I think, but gas is around $.30/g cheaper in NJ. If you want to stay in the city, I'm sure there are places (especially in the NE) that are affordable and safe. But you have to decide that for yourself.

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"When you operate in an overbuilt metropolis, you have to hack your way with a meat ax."

Got back from Vegas yesterday. We had a fantastic time. I'm just cathching up on the blog.
Grappler, PWalk and Zur - I agree. Especially after being away. It's like sometimes you can't really get perspective, but once away from Frankford I don't struggle so much with the decision anylonger. It is so absolutely refreshing to see that the rest of the world actually lives with some peace in their neighborhoods and homes.
Not worrying about being shot, robbed, mugged, vandalized or having their cars broken into or stolen. Places where you can actually walk down the street without having to be treated to people fighting, cussing, spitting in front of you on the ground or asking for money. Where there are at least no visible drug deals going on on corners or prostitutes walking up and down where you shop.
When we drove up to our home last night it was like feeling a knot in the pit of my stomach. Depressing and really sad. I'm mourning for the loss of our neighborhood and our home, but it will never, never be the same. I am angry because we gave it our all - the whole gammett - meetings, organizations, writing to politicians, newspapers, trying to get people to come back to Frankford and see the new shops that had opened, to come to the Art Festival - all of it, but it's really lost. And even those that did come, felt sorry for us, almost embarrassed for us and pitied us for the work we were doing because they wanted to support us, but they could see it was a lost cause and most never came back again. I think they only tried to support us because they were friends or family, but I'd always hear the same thing "You really need to get out of there." I used to get annoyed at them for this, but I just couldn't swallow the fact that it was over.
Unfortunately, it really is a lost cause - at least for the next five to ten years or more. It's going to take a tremendous amount of work, committment and money to turn things around here and it just isn't happening in large pockets. I've seen it over and over again where small groups come in and really give it a shot in some form or another, but it's never enough and eventually they burn out, run out of money or just begin in fighting and chase one another away. Frankford for some reason just can't seem to get it together.
The house in Turnersville sold already, but there a few others to look at and some other options, but there is no doubt it is absolutely time to go. We were woke up this morning around 3:00am by fighting and the cops out here and as the weather warms it will get worse.
Mayfair, stay vigilant, because it doesn't take much for it to shift before your eyes and you're struggling. Keep on the backs of the politicians, support the businesses in your area, try to encourage homeownership by people who will actually live there. Try to discourage an overabundance of rentals.
Even many of the people in Frankford that are trying to turn it around now do not live in Frankford. They have properties, businesses and are heavily involved in organizations, but a large percentage live outside of Frankford.
I'm curious to see if they will eventually buy a house and live in Frankford - I mean in the heart of Frankford - not Northwood - Frankford, that's where the homes need to be occupied by homeowners - that I think would make a huge difference. I can't blame them though, if I wasn't already involved here and living here, I wouldn't come into this either.

That's awesome. You're a leader.

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"Things are starting to get interesting right about now"

All comments made by me on his board are given freely and probably worth what you paid for them.

Just picked up a Northeast Times while getting coffee this morning. Here is an excerpt article about the history of Frankford. You can go to www.northeasttimes.com to read the entire article. The article is about Frankford's past and that it wasn't always just guns, drugs and crime.

Fond of Frankford

Note: With Frankford in the process of planning projects to revitalize its transportation corridor, business district and residential communities, the Northeast Times, in ongoing articles, will look to Frankford’s historical past, its decline and more recent attempts at renewal, as well as current issues that could impede further progress.

By Diane Villano
Times Staff Writer

It may be hard for someone walking through the streets of Frankford today to imagine the Frankford that poet John Greenleaf Whittier wrote about.
"During a temporary residence in Philadelphia, in the summer of 1838, the quiet and beautiful scenery around the ancient village of Frankford frequently attracted me from the heat and bustle of the city," Whittier wrote in his journal.
The poet paid tribute to Frankford minister Thomas Chalkley and Chalkley Hall in his poem Snowbound.
. . . Its soft, green meadows and its upland glade,
To me is holy ground.
Here a deeper and serener charm
To all is given.
And blessed memories of the faithful dead
O’er wood and vale and meadow stream have shed
The holy hues of Heaven.
First referred to as Oxford, Frankford is bordered by the Frankford Creek, Castor Avenue and the meeting point of Cheltenham and Delaware avenues.
The village may have been named for the Franckfort Company, which operated a business there. It wasn’t until 1800 that it was incorporated as a borough. In 1854, it became part of the city proper.
Upon their arrival in the 17th century, Swedes settled the region and established settlements along the Frankford Creek, even building a grist mill on its north bank.
Frankford was a Quaker community by the late 17th century, although an Episcopal church built soon after began the dilution of the community of Friends.
In 1774, there were 127 "taxables," or taxpayers, listed in Oxford Township — three Swedes, 34 Germans and 90 English, Welsh, Irish and Quaker settlers, according to an article in the book A History of Frankford.
Frankford thrived in the 18th century along the King’s Highway, later to become Frankford Avenue, the road from Philadelphia to Trenton that was built along an existing Native American trail.
The highly traveled road brought such noble visitors as John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, French general and aristocrat Marquis de Lafayette, and George Washington himself to Frankford and stops at the Jolly Post Inn and Tavern. On today’s map, it was located on the west side of Frankford Avenue, just north of Orthodox Street.



Frankford has numerous Revolutionary War connections. Betsy Ross’s lineage is traced to Frankford, and she frequented the area to visit family there. Oswald Eve had a contract with the Continental Congress to supply gunpowder. Frankford was the scene of a heroic story as well.
Lydia Darrah (sometimes spelled Darrach or Darragh) lived with her husband and children in Philadelphia, while the British controlled the city. British Gen. William Howe’s adjutant-general arranged for a private meeting to be held in the Darrah house, instructing Lydia to make sure everyone went to bed early.
She sent her family to bed and tiptoed back to listen in on what the British troops were planning — a surprise attack on Washington’s army.
Lydia went to her bed and pretended to be asleep, ultimately preparing to quickly slip out at dawn for a flour mill along the Frankford Creek, and a Continental Army headquarters at the Rising Sun Tavern, where she spread news of the British plans for attack.
After the attempted ambush was thwarted, the adjutant-general questioned Lydia about who may have overheard the British conference.
"I know you were asleep," he told her, "for I knocked on your door at least three times before you answered me . . . . When we arrived near their encampment we found all their cannon in position . . . we marched back like a parcel of fools."





In the years after the American Revolution, Frankford blossomed to become a center of industry for Philadelphia.
Samuel Martin opened a textile mill in 1809, followed by Isaac English and his pottery works in 1816. John Briggs started a business as a wheelwright and eventually joined with Harvey Quicksall to manufacture umbrella frames.
"Viewed by themselves, the changes in Frankford were unremarkable: history is, after all, about change," notes the book Pennsylvania: A History of the Commonwealth. "But seen in the context of similar changes across the state, the growth in Frankford . . . signaled an important transition in Pennsylvania’s economic, demographic and social landscape."
The book later notes that a Baptist church and an African Methodist Episcopal church suggested the presence of "non-elite white workers" and an organized African-American community. The establishment of a Catholic church followed the entry of Irish workers into Frankford’s mills and other industries.
On April, 11, 1831, a local lamplighter borrowed $375 from the first building-and-loan association in the country, located in Frankford — the Oxford Provident Building Association. Comly Rich’s house, at 4276 Orchard St., touted as the first mortgaged home in America, still stands today.
One of the most important industries in Frankford was its arsenal.



The noted Frankford historian Howard Lee Barnes addressed those days of the country's economic collapse in A History of Frankford:
The Depression did not touch everyone; many people were not hampered by it and worked right through the troubled times. Many of our Frankford families lost their homes because of unemployment. Banks closed. The textile workers suffered, because their mills were the first to close. It was not until the 1930s that we were out of the Depression, when we began to supply war goods to our allies.
During the war, Frankford was a booming industrial center. The Frankford Arsenal, according to Pennsylvania: A History of the Commonwealth, "poured forth streams of small-arms ammunition and trained workers to go into new munitions plants."
It set the stage for a strong post-World War II era in Frankford. ••
Reporter Diane Villano can be reached at 215-354-3036 or dvillano@phillynews.com

If coming home is depressing rather than uplifting, you definitely need a change. I remember coming home from a trip and being uplifted by the ride up 95 from the airport; I was so happy to be home and back in my city. Your experience was the polar opposite.

I loved living in Frankford but while always optomistic I was never fully confident in things staying the same or getting better.

I am reminded of the story of Herman Wrice. He was the subject of a mural that was profiled on a Channel 12 show on Philadelphia Murals. Herman Wrice is familiar to people my age, if familiar at all, as the crazy guy in a hardhat with a bullhorn who was the leader of Mantua Against Drugs (MAD), which was/is a bunch of very brave people who confronted drug dealing in their neighborhood. The channel 12 show dug up some footage from a channel 10 public service show from the 60s about Wrice's activism in Mantua. He quit a good paying job as an engineer to become a neighborhood activist. He really had a lot going on there, job training, small business development, all sorts of stuff. I first saw Mantua in the early 80s when we got off an exit too early for University City. It was a bombed out nightmare. After finding out about Wrice's herculean efforts in the 60s, I was very disturbed by how it all went so very wrong by the 80s. Sometimes the good guys lose. Sometimes the macro forces are just too strong.

That said, there are a several strong neighbrhoods here in the NE, that are moving in the right direction. I hope you consider one of them.

I also think the good folks in Frankford do have a chance, but they may need to limit the geographic scope of the area they are trying to impact, at least in the short term. One of the things I loved about living in Frankford is the number of really good people there who are real doers. I suspect they might just be a little too scattered. With the coming shake-up in the political landscape with people retiring or going to jail, there is an opportunity to get some people in there with some practical vision (like why the hell isn't there a new office building to go with the new transportation center?).

Dragonfly, Joe Menkevich would like to get in touch with you. Email me and I'll pass along is email address.

__________________
"Things are starting to get interesting right about now"

All comments made by me on his board are given freely and probably worth what you paid for them.

Drugs is the major problem in Frankford. China had a heroin problem decades ago and locked and cleaned people up against their will. Exactly what needs to happen here.
But it ain't China.

The problem as I see it is that as Center City's ongoing real estate and new construction boom gentrifies its way northward, overtaking and evacuating the inhabitants of the portion of the city to Kensington's south in the process, Center City is totally blind to what is taking place to Kensington's northern side and all that's occurring northeastward from there. With no other direction in which to go, the longstanding residents of lower Kensington are forced to migrate up into Frankford and beyond where, needless to say, they're not very welcome -- especially if it's drug addicts and others of that element. Rather than Center City allowing gentrification to occur to Kensington's south, it should be rehabilitating these communities instead. But the responsibility of this it's completely shifting off onto Northeast Philadelphia to do, whether knowingly or unknowingly. And, of course, in this regard Northeast Philadelphia can only do so much. And just at a time when Northeast Philadelphia is working very hard to become more suburban-like, which is to say Northeast Philadelphia at its best, it's getting dumped on with this.

In terms of the city's inner city poverty between Center City and Northeast Philadelphia, that much is not getting solved, but merely shifted northward. And as Northeast Philadelphia above Frankford shifts this poverty back the other way, Frankford is getting the full brunt of it, being made the unwilling receptacle as it were of what the rest of the city to the north and south of there does not want. And to be sure, to the Frankford community itself this is completely unfair. But the question is, how to resolve it?

As a Northeast Philadelphia resident, I would like to see Frankford be incorporated in Northeast Philadelphia more, and the criminal element overtaking it now shifted back in Center City's direction, since I see Center City, and NOT Northeast Philadelphia, as the root cause of the whole problem. But the best way to go about doing this, that's the question.

As for Center City's ongoing real estate and new construction boom, I continuously have to ask where all the money driving this is coming from. And why is it all pouring into Center City and not Northeast Philadelphia more? And why is so little if any of it being used to rehabilitate the drug addicts and others who are so deperately in need of rehabilitation? And the answer seems to be because Center City for the most part is running the whole show -- which might all look "great" from Center City's viewpoint, but certainly not from up here where I live. Which only indicates to me that Northeast Philadelphia needs to come into its own more and to help out Frankford in the process. But how to do it. That's the million dollar question right now...

Scoats,
Thanks for the message. I may do that sometime soon. I would like to think about it a bit. Scoats, I always appreciate and respect your comments and ideas. You're one of the most level headed posters here, among others, and your fairness is always evident.
I think everyone appreciates your involvement in the community and you are highly regarded.
I hope you'll understand, at least at this point, why it's imperative that I can't direct e-mail. I will explain to you at another time in the future. That's a promise.
As far as Joe goes, he's doing a great job in Northwood. He's a go getter too!
Joe, keep up the committment, sometimes you can feel like your constantly fighting, so don't burn out too quickly - it really is very, very important.
Let's think about this a bit and I will get back to you.
You guys in Mayfair and other parts of the Northeast have it together when it comes to your neighborhood, it's so much more of a struggle here.
I am in touch with quite a few people that may be working on a very big piece about the experiences of being involved one way or another in Frankford and at this point I am trying to just communicate and inform and hopefully discuss and dispel rumors and get the fact from the fiction straight utilizing this great blog.
There is actually a sociologist from a University that is interested in the interactions of the Frankford community based on interviews conducted with many of the people that have been or are now involved in the community. It is a very interesting social study. It also helps to establish part of the reason that even with all the efforts, energies and finances over the years that are poured into the community it never seems to get a step ahead and the theory is suggesting the social interactions as a huge piece to this dilemma. This does not rule out the other quality of life issues we're dealing with here.
The other folks involved truly want to remain anonymous and if I speak to anyone else other than through the blog that will shut them down. I can however, if you would like, ask some of them to e-mail you so that you can make a direct contact, only if you would like.
Because I am still involved in the area and live here and because I have seen and heard what has happened to others that have been here, I - at least at this point - have found it helpful to work through this blog because it does seem to help to eventually get through to the facts and to share important information that affect the area.
At this point I have observed and learned a few things about Frankford. Everyone involved in the area is somehow linked to another and no matter how confidential one thinks a conversation or a meeting is, it isn't, truly.
In fact, some of the people involved in organizations, agencies, businesses and other groups read this blog often and immediately discuss it with one another. Which is fine, it's a public forum, but there are private conversations that people have based on trust and at unbelievable speeds they end up all over the Philadelphia area. I mean this goes as far as everyone from delivery people to where one gets their coffee and who delivers the mail and round and round.
Man, there was even talk of Frankford at Finnegan's Wake on Friday afternoon during the St. Patrick's Day imbibements!
I wish we could attack the crime here at these speeds!
Once in a while one will place a quick comment here on the blog and then never come back on, only if it relates directly or indirectly in some way to that individual. What's really crazy is that many of the people involved have no idea that they even talk about one other once one of them leaves the room! They are already speculating about who is who and they are way, way off. It is always assumed that it's someone not directly involved.
One would hope that at least knowing this would have a few really look in the mirror and realize how damaging all of that is and just put an end to it, but it's human nature and it just continues. Unfortunately it impedes any progress that anyone tries to accomplish because of very, very shaky alliances.
Anyway, Scoats, hope you understand. But, I promise I will e-mail you as soon as it's possible. Thanks, you're always one of the positive thinkers! Much appeciated!

Im trying to get up into Tacony more IM near moss playground major drug area. I want to rent though and sell my dump.
It will happen for me soon, just dont know when but like Dragonfly-I gotta do it soon. with the warm weather we had I seen a preview of what its gonna be like.
my next door trailor trash almost got taken in for drugs in the alley and trired to hide the junk in my old trash can out back. scums.