Ferry to Cape May - Page 2 - PhillyBlog

eldondre · #11 (**permalink**) 06-13-2007, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valley Twin

Cape May City is pretty walkable. The problem is going to be that the only place to dock the ferry is going to be in North Cape May, a separate town where the current Cape May - Lewes Ferry docks. The City of Cape May is actually on the ocean, not the bay.

The very point of NJ, where the bay meets the ocean is Cape May Point, about 2 miles south of Cape May City. Above the Point are Cape May City on the Atlantic side and North Cape May on the bay side. You can't walk from North Cape May to Cape May City and there's no public transportation that I'm aware of. I imagine you could do a shuttle or jitney service, but that's another problem...

A train would be a good alternative, since there are already tracks into Cape May. It's been decades since trains serviced the city so they probably need some work, but at least the infrastructure is there already.

I wouldn't take train or passenger ferry because we always go to our family's house at the Point and there are no stores within a couple of miles so you need a car. If we were staying the CM City, I'd consider a ferry or train, but only if we were just going for a few days. More than that and we like to branch out to visit the Wildwood or Ocean City boardwalks or the casinos in AC. (Cape May doesn't have a boardwalk.)

no, the Lewes ferry would not work. it is where it is since it services cars. passenger only ferries woudl need a different destination. the question is, could it be fast enough that people make a day trip out of it?
next question is, what are the costs of a ferry vs a train? the ferry would require dock space near the destinations. the train woudl likely require track upgrades and signaling. there is a possibility that the ferry could be sent south in the winter. it sounds like the market for the ferry woudl be smaller (since everyone wants to ride the train) so the costs woudl have to be dramatically cheaper. I don't know those numbers so I can't take it any further. I think I foresee more AC trains before there's a new Cape May train.

Mark Michalovic · #12 (**permalink**) 06-13-2007, 09:28 PM

Not only are there tracks there, but they are used too. The Cape May Seashore Lines exursion train uses the southern stretch of the route. These trains don't run all the way to Atlantic City, though. The tracks between AC and Cape May Courthouse probably need to be restored for full service between Philly and Cape May.

Such a service would be good not only for people going to Cape May, but for those who want to run between Cape May and Atlantic City during their vacations.

Such a service would also be good for people who do need to drive to the Shore, because there'd be fewer cars to fight with on the way down.

eldondre · #13 (**permalink**) 06-13-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Michalovic

Not only are there tracks there, but they are used too. The Cape May Seashore Lines exursion train uses the southern stretch of the route. These trains don't run all the way to Atlantic City, though. The tracks between AC and Cape May Courthouse probably need to be restored for full service between Philly and Cape May.

Such a service would be good not only for people going to Cape May, but for those who want to run between Cape May and Atlantic City during their vacations.

Such a service would also be good for people who do need to drive to the Shore, because there'd be fewer cars to fight with on the way down.

I thought the line inquestion ran through camden not AC. no?
If they coudl run through AC, then it shoudl be relatively easy given the infrequent run times for the AC line. (even if it is slow as all get out).
edit: looks like there's a junction oustide AC that might work, in winslow. that said, it might be cheaper, don't know. Hard to say. the AC line is NJT's most unprofitable line. if you coudl run a profitable ferry...
still think your best bet is working with AC and the casinos to upgrade the track to AC. this line could piggy back off of that. without faster travel times though, it's be more a rail enthusiast's dream than a funcional alternative (there are buses that go there).

Bike Coalition · #14 (**permalink**) 06-16-2007, 11:43 AM

1 - There are shuttle buses from the ferry terminals to Cape May, Rehoboth Beach Park and Ride and Lewes

2 - NJ TRANSIT 552 Bus (A.C.-Wildwood-Cape May) comes within 1.5 miles of the Cape May Terminal (Bayshore Rd and Town Bank Rd). It is a 10 minute bike ride or a 40 minute walk through the bayfront community of North Cape May.

3 - Bicycling on the Delaware side is worth the trip. A new 12 foot wide crushed stone path has just been completed between Lewes and Rehoboth Beach. There is also a scenic paved path loop in Cape Henlopen State Park.

4 - Cape May Seashore Lines has not operated between Cape May Courthouse and Cape May City since 2005. There has been no explanation as to why this service has not been running. CMSL currently runs excursion trains between Richland and Tuckahoe on weekends.

zur · #15 (**permalink**) 06-16-2007, 05:21 PM

As a teen we always took the buses down.

It really sucked. Sat in the same traffic plus random stops plus a crowded bus.

Then the hike to the hotel with all your gear.

And the return Septa ride from NJT back to the NE.

Tried the AC line a couple times....jitney service is limited. Ended up just getting a ride back due to the low frequency.

We drive.

omnivore · #16 (**permalink**) 06-18-2007, 05:01 PM

I can't think of any examples of successful ferries in North America in places where driving takes more or less the same amount of time as the boat. The most recent and spectacular failure was the Rochester-Toronto ferry, which only lasted a year, despite the enormous investment in the vessel, because it ended up being only slightly faster than driving. The only places where ferries are routinely successful in the US is either where they go where cars can't (i.e. islands) or where they cut a really substantial amount of time off the drive (i.e. Lewes-Cape May or Manitowoc, WI-Ludington, MI).

eldondre · #17 (**permalink**) 06-18-2007, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omnivore

I can't think of any examples of successful ferries in North America in places where driving takes more or less the same amount of time as the boat. The most recent and spectacular failure was the Rochester-Toronto ferry, which only lasted a year, despite the enormous investment in the vessel, because it ended up being only slightly faster than driving. The only places where ferries are routinely successful in the US is either where they go where cars can't (i.e. islands) or where they cut a really substantial amount of time off the drive (i.e. Lewes-Cape May or Manitowoc, WI-Ludington, MI).

would you apply that same logic to passenger trains?

omnivore · #18 (**permalink**) 06-18-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eldondre

would you apply that same logic to passenger trains?

I'm not sure I'm applying logic. I'm just making an observation. Can you think of any successful ferries in the US that don't meet the criteria I outlined?

I'm not an expert, but my instinct tells me that people would be more likely to take a passenger train to Cape May for 3 reasons: 1) it could potentially be faster than driving, 2) it could potentially serve points along the way, like Vineland if it follows the highway, or other shore points, which would give other sources of traffic, and 3) it would go downtown-->downtown, which would be much more useful for carless shoregoers, who after a couple of hours on a boat probably wouldn't be in much of a mood to monkey around with jitneys.

eldondre · #19 (**permalink**) 06-18-2007, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omnivore

I'm not sure I'm applying logic. I'm just making an observation. Can you think of any successful ferries in the US that don't meet the criteria I outlined?

no, I think they are pretty good observations for any service and there is some good underlying logic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by omnivore

I'm not an expert, but my instinct tells me that people would be more likely to take a passenger train to Cape May for 3 reasons: 1) it could potentially be faster than driving, 2) it could potentially serve points along the way, like Vineland if it follows the highway, or other shore points, which would give other sources of traffic, and 3) it would go downtown-->downtown, which would be much more useful for carless shoregoers, who after a couple of hours on a boat probably wouldn't be in much of a mood to monkey around with jitneys.

that's a good point, although a ferry would drop you off at the harbor I'd imagine...not the car ferry terminal) but a train coudl take you to any of the intermediate points. However, I think what has killed the AC line (or made it sucha dog) is that it's trip time is terrible. it's 90 min, runs infrequently, and it's what, 75 min to drive?

omnivore · #20 (**permalink**) 06-18-2007, 10:43 PM

Yeah, I guess we've put our hands on the fundamental dilemma of public transit in this country, eldondre. It has to be better than driving, or else no one will use it. It's not good enough for it to be as good as driving, it has to be better.