PhillyBlog - Philadelphia  

Go Back   PhillyBlog - Philadelphia > Where We Are > The Nation
Blogs Map Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Google
 
Web www.phillyblog.com

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 03:04 PM
frankdialogue frankdialogue is offline
Water Ice Vendor
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 533
Default

Towelie, check out the definitions for free market, monopoly capitalism, mercantilism, plutocracy and oligarchy...then we can have a discussion about what 'free market' is...I appreciate your comments, although I don't agree.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 03:35 PM
Tannhauser's Avatar
Tannhauser Tannhauser is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,286
Blog Entries: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankdialogue View Post
Tannenbaum, thanks for your response...but 'non-sequitors' and 'strawmen'?...I don't engage in 'Hegelian dialectic'...I just try to take certain arguments to their logical conclusion...You support the 'War on Terror'...OK...I don't...I think the dockworkers strike was a good gesture, whether effective or not...If they were striking for a contract, as someone else replied,they would have been out much longer, and there would have been lot's more turmoil and strife...should Union members engage in politics?...Unions are about politics; at least these guys took a stance on an issue that is helping to wreck America, instead of just going along with 'politics as usual'.
Again with the Jew-baiting. Hate to tell you this, Frank, but I'm not Jewish. I'm not Black either, but I find your racist attacks on both groups to be disgusting.
Sorry about going over your head with the terminology, but you have to admit, I did give you a rather simple definition of non-sequitur. Straw man is attacking something your opponenet didn't say and then assigning it to him (like building a strawman, beating it up, and saying that it was your opponent because in fact, you're incapable of beating your real opponent.)
Unions, actually, are more about collective bargaining and are no more about politics than anything else, at least that's what the idea is supposed to be about.
Congratulations on admitting that you're against fighting the War On Terror. Not too many folks would think to admit to that.
__________________
The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? - Psalm 27:1
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 04:58 PM
Towelie's Avatar
Towelie Towelie is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,052
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankdialogue View Post
Towelie, check out the definitions for free market, monopoly capitalism, mercantilism, plutocracy and oligarchy...then we can have a discussion about what 'free market' is...I appreciate your comments, although I don't agree.

Ok I just looked them up.


Free Market

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/free%20market

an economic system in which prices and wages are determined by unrestricted competition between businesses, without government regulation or fear of monopolies.


Monopoly capitalism

No definition on dictionary.com so I had to use wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_monopoly_capitalism


The main Marxist-Leninist thesis is that big business, having achieved a monopoly or cartel position in most markets of importance, fuses with the government apparatus. A kind of financial oligarchy or conglomerate therefore results, whereby government officials aim to provide the social and legal framework within which giant corporations can operate most effectively.
This is a close partnership between big business and government, and it is argued that the aim is to integrate labor-unions completely in that partnership.


MERCANTILISM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism

Mercantilism is an economic theory that the prosperity of a nation depends upon its capital, and that the volume of the world economy and international trade is unchangeable. Government economic policy based on these ideas is also sometimes called mercantilism, but is more properly known as the mercantile system. Some scholars conceive the mercantile system as a subset of, or synonymous with, the early stages of capitalism, while others consider mercantilism to be a distinct economic system.



Plutocracy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy


Plutocracy is the rule or power through wealth or by the wealthy. In a plutocracy, the degree of economic inequality is high while the level of social mobility is low. This can apply to a multitude of government systems, as the key elements of plutocracy transcend and often occur concurrently with the features of those systems. The word plutocracy (Modern Greek: πλουτοκρατία - ploutokratia) is derived from the ancient Greek root ploutos, meaning wealth and kratein, meaning to rule or to govern.


Oligarchy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligarchy

Oligarchy (Greek Ὀλιγαρχία, Oligarkhía) is a form of government where political power effectively rests with a small elite segment of society (whether distinguished by wealth, family or military powers). The word oligarchy is from the Greek words for "few" (ὀλίγον olígon) and "rule" (ἄρχω arkho). Compare with autocracy (rule by one person) and democracy (rule by the majority).



Now can we discuss Free Market who's definition applies the closest to my Philosophy?
__________________
Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
----Ronald Reagan

1988: Near the end of the Reagan administration, the Office of National Drug Control Policy was created for central coordination of drug-related legislative, security, diplomatic, research and health policy throughout the government.



-----------------Got Irony?
Reply With Quote

Advertisement

   
     
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 05:12 PM
frankdialogue frankdialogue is offline
Water Ice Vendor
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 533
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tannhauser View Post
Again with the Jew-baiting. Hate to tell you this, Frank, but I'm not Jewish. I'm not Black either, but I find your racist attacks on both groups to be disgusting.
Sorry about going over your head with the terminology, but you have to admit, I did give you a rather simple definition of non-sequitur. Straw man is attacking something your opponenet didn't say and then assigning it to him (like building a strawman, beating it up, and saying that it was your opponent because in fact, you're incapable of beating your real opponent.)
Unions, actually, are more about collective bargaining and are no more about politics than anything else, at least that's what the idea is supposed to be about.
Congratulations on admitting that you're against fighting the War On Terror. Not too many folks would think to admit to that.
Tann, correct me if I'm wrong, but where did I say anything about Jews in my post?...I looked with a microscope, maybe I need an electron-microscope!...and, yes, the only war on terror that I would support was one that focused on the real terrorists: the traitors in our government!...and, I know that you are not Jewish, as I read a post of yours where you talked about being a church member...but, if you are a Christian, you must remember the simple words of Jesus Christ: "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall find peace.'...the people that lead us into these foreign wars are not Christians, although some may blaspheme in Christ's name...they worship a different 'god'.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 05:13 PM
gone down south gone down south is online now
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Spring-cisville-mount-gan Circle
Posts: 1,345
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankdialogue View Post
If they were striking for a contract, as someone else replied,they would have been out much longer, and there would have been lot's more turmoil and strife....

Actually, what I said was the the union was sending a message to management, showing that they still have the power of collective action behind them. With their contract negotiations coming up soon, this puts a little more weight behind their bargaining position.

Ending the war was just a convenient hook to hang their strike on, and it was good PR in today's political climate, but it was a complete misdirection.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 05:39 PM
frankdialogue frankdialogue is offline
Water Ice Vendor
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 533
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Towelie View Post
Ok I just looked them up.


1) Free Market

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/free%20market

an economic system in which prices and wages are determined by unrestricted competition between businesses, without government regulation or fear of monopolies.


2) Monopoly capitalism

No definition on dictionary.com so I had to use wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_monopoly_capitalism


The main Marxist-Leninist thesis is that big business, having achieved a monopoly or cartel position in most markets of importance, fuses with the government apparatus. A kind of financial oligarchy or conglomerate therefore results, whereby government officials aim to provide the social and legal framework within which giant corporations can operate most effectively.
This is a close partnership between big business and government, and it is argued that the aim is to integrate labor-unions completely in that partnership.


3) MERCANTILISM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism

Mercantilism is an economic theory that the prosperity of a nation depends upon its capital, and that the volume of the world economy and international trade is unchangeable. Government economic policy based on these ideas is also sometimes called mercantilism, but is more properly known as the mercantile system. Some scholars conceive the mercantile system as a subset of, or synonymous with, the early stages of capitalism, while others consider mercantilism to be a distinct economic system.



4) Plutocracy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy


Plutocracy is the rule or power through wealth or by the wealthy. In a plutocracy, the degree of economic inequality is high while the level of social mobility is low. This can apply to a multitude of government systems, as the key elements of plutocracy transcend and often occur concurrently with the features of those systems. The word plutocracy (Modern Greek: πλουτοκρατία - ploutokratia) is derived from the ancient Greek root ploutos, meaning wealth and kratein, meaning to rule or to govern.


5) Oligarchy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligarchy

Oligarchy (Greek Ὀλιγαρχία, Oligarkhía) is a form of government where political power effectively rests with a small elite segment of society (whether distinguished by wealth, family or military powers). The word oligarchy is from the Greek words for "few" (ὀλίγον olígon) and "rule" (ἄρχω arkho). Compare with autocracy (rule by one person) and democracy (rule by the majority).



Now can we discuss Free Market who's definition applies the closest to my Philosophy?
Thanks for your reply...I took the liberty of marking all you entries 1-5...I favor #1, which is Free Market...but, unfortunately, going by the definitions you posted, I would suggestb that nmbers 2 thru 5 apply to the economic model we have now in the USA...2) Monopoly Capitalism: certainly in effect in the USA...all major commodities, banking/financial services & infra-structure (telecom,
media, publishing etc) controlled by cartels...3) Mercantilism: as a theory it has some merit, but as a practice, you could say that it has evolved into 'globalism', which is based on a system of trans-national capitalism, that respects no sovereign boundries of nation states, and in effect puts the total world production of goods and services into the hands of an even worse cartel, one of global: 5)
Oligarchs, who, as illustrated by the Russian example, are solely interested in the quickest and most obscene profits, with absolutely no consideration of the health of the industries they control, or the people who work/depend on them...4) Plutocracy is the top of the pyramid, the richest of the rich, the global elite, in fact those who print and create the money...these think of themselves as 'demi-gods' or 'men of destiny' who, by 'divine right' are 'stewards of the world's wealth'...these are the most dangerous, because they have the most power...'Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely'...only a truly free, America First system, can help us now...I would be in favour of radical 'restructuring' of our money system, tariffs, at least temporarily, and other steps that would lead to a policy of 'Free/Fair Trade.'
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 02:12 PM
Tannhauser's Avatar
Tannhauser Tannhauser is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,286
Blog Entries: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankdialogue View Post
Tann, correct me if I'm wrong, but where did I say anything about Jews in my post?
Hmmm... Perhaps calling someone who just pointed out another foolish mistake on your part a sterotypical Jewish name?
You're so blinded by your bigotry that you don't even seem to be able to determine when you're displaying your vile compulsion.

Very sad indeed Frank.
__________________
The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? - Psalm 27:1
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 02:20 PM
Towelie's Avatar
Towelie Towelie is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,052
Default

I forgot about this thread. Nice post Frank but it didn't exacltly sway my view. I still believe in Free Market more than "America First" I think that if America wants to stay first, it needs to do that itself. Although I do hate to see company's like Haliburton build up on the backs of Americans and then all of sudden moved to Dubai. That was VERY VERY SHADY!!


But I still support a free market and don't want other countries "blocked" out.



Edit to the original post: I still see some regulations I would be in favor of when it comes to imports/exports to some extent.
__________________
Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
----Ronald Reagan

1988: Near the end of the Reagan administration, the Office of National Drug Control Policy was created for central coordination of drug-related legislative, security, diplomatic, research and health policy throughout the government.



-----------------Got Irony?

Last edited by Towelie : 05-13-2008 at 04:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 03:07 PM
gone down south gone down south is online now
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Spring-cisville-mount-gan Circle
Posts: 1,345
Default

Where was the anti-semitic reference? I can't find one
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 05:15 PM
frankdialogue frankdialogue is offline
Water Ice Vendor
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 533
Default

Mr.Tannhauser always attacks me as anti-Jewish because I oppose most of Israel's policies...well, most of my Jewish friends also oppose those policies, not to mention the US war in Iraq...in fact, I met with an Israeli IDF soldier a couple of months ago who had a photo exhibition at a local gallery...the photos were taken when he was on duty in the occupied West Bank, Hebron, with also a few from Gaza...this soldier said that he created this exhibition so that people from around the world would understand that a large segment of Israelis oppose their government's policies vis-a-vis the Palestinians, and also because he himself was disgusted with the actions and procedures used by IDF troops in these areas...he was an intelligent and reasonable guy, but, by certain people's logic, even an Israeli who disagreed with their own government would be considered 'anti-Jewish!...I have no bones to pick with any ethnic group, but I also don't hesitate to criticize the actions of so-called 'leaders' who always make little people pay the bills for their foolishness and treachery...this goes for Israelis, Americans, Iranians, Russians, Poles Brits and so on.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.