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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2008, 04:44 PM
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SEE: Supporters look to get Equal Rights Amendment ratified


If you are one of the few who is aware of how the Fourteenth Amendment has been repeatedly used by radicals to undermine the limited intentions and beliefs under which the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted --- such limited intentions being to forbid the enforcement of any state legislation based upon race color or previous condition of slavery --- then you will also be one of the few who will also understand how the wording of the Equal Rights Amendment [re-introduced in the House and Senate] if adopted, will open the door for our Washington Establishment to impose countless new federal regulations and rules within every State in the Union which will make our Tenth Amendment and our constitutional guarantee to federalism meaningless.


In fact, if the ERA were ever adopted it would make existing federal regulations under the commerce clause look insignificant to the mountain of regulatory powers which would be assumed and enforced under the ERA.


For example, homosexuals who want every state in the union to recognize and sanction homosexual marriage would find victory under the ERA as the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court overturned its own state's ban on gay marriage, saying it violated the state's ERA!


How about homosexuals, transsexuals and lesbians who want to compel property and business owners to engage in unwanted contracts and associations with them? No problem if the ERA is adopted! Our dictatorial S.C. will find artful words alleging such protection is found in the ERA, thereby crushing the unalienable right of property and business owners to reject unwanted contracts and associations with homosexuals, transsexuals and lesbians.


Make no mistake, just as the ADA [Americans with Disabilities Act] was often referred to as the lawyers full employment Act, so too would the ERA be dubbed another lawyers full employment act if it were ever made part of our federal Constitution!


Although the amendment is now being pushed as a way to ensure “equal pay for equal work’’ keep in mind the proposed amendment has little or nothing to do with any existing state laws asserted to impose unequal pay based upon gender! The real mission of today’s ERA backers has more to do with imposing their will upon the private sector, and more importantly, has everything to do with subjugating the unalienable rights of business and property owners. The object is to overturn the unalienable right of employer and employee, property owner and guest, to mutually agree in their contracts and associations, and compel business owners and property owners to enter into unwanted contracts and associations with homosexuals, transsexuals and lesbians, not to mention establishing homosexual marriage rights in every state in the union!


The ERA was originally introduced in 1923 but was not sent to the States for ratification until 1972, and then contained a seven-year time limit stipulation for ratification. A sufficient number of states did not ratify the amendment by the deadline and Congress voted to extended the dead line a few more years, while some states who had ratified the amendment and realizing the unintended consequences connected to the wording of the ERA started the process to rescind their approval. In extending the time period for ratification, Congress wrote language in the extension to forbid States to rescind their ratification. But five states voted to withdraw their approval for the amendment and several others were preparing to do likewise before the extension expired.


The ERA was officially defeated on June 30, 1982 and the SCOTUS later dismissed an ERA case as being moot because the expiration date had come and gone without a sufficient number of ratifying states.


ERA activists are now claiming that a recent ratification of one of the first12 amendments sent to the states in 1789 for ratification having been adopted in 1992, which now requires a roll-call vote before Congress can grant itself a pay raise, is enough to claim only three states are needed to make the ERA part of our Constitution. Of course the claim is without foundation. Keep in mind the pay raise amendment adopted in 1992 had no time limit stipulation while the ERA did in fact contain a stipulated time limit for ratification. In addition, a number of states voted to rescind their ratification of the ERA before the necessary number of ratifying states were reached which means approximately nine more states, not three, would have been necessary to ratify the amendment before its time limit expired.

In summary, the so called equal rights amendment is not about equal rights. It has become a means to subjugate the unalienable right of people to mutually agree in their contracts and associations and is geared to give homosexuals, transsexuals and lesbians a distinctive advantage [the threat of legal action over others] to compel unwilling parties to submit to their economic demands and this does not even take into account the extraordinary regulatory power over business and industry the federal government would assume within every state of the union if the ERA were ever adopted.

The ERA and its wording is also viewed as a clever step to enforcing homosexual marriages in every state, and perhaps the sanctioning of unfettered taxpayer funded abortions throughout the united States. I expect its supporters are well aware of Florida’s newly elected Charlie Crist’s liberal leanings with regard to these issues, and is why the ERA crowd has decided to bring their dog and pony show to the State of Florida.

JWK
What is wrong with homosexuals, transsexuals and lesbians?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2008, 08:45 PM
Jamaicanmenuts Jamaicanmenuts is offline
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What is comes down to for the OP (IMO) is that s/he does not want to be forced to be nice to or legally bound to do business in any way, shape or form with queers of any hue or sect.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2008, 09:21 PM
Colin P. Varga Colin P. Varga is offline
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Originally Posted by frankdialogue View Post
Very good common sense post...what we have in the US now is a plethora of 'laws' that are unintelligible to all but the lawyers who are paid to find the loopholes in them for whatever special interest is paying them...also, there is what is called 'administrative law' which are regulations put into place by the various alphabet agencies (IRS, BATF, Child Protective Services, etc.) that were never passed by any legislative body, but are simply bureaucratic regulations used by these various and sundry 'agncies' to ensnare the average person in a spider web of bullshit, to confuse them as to their rights and, ultimately to exert control over them.
Everything described above is the condition of government in the 18th and 19th centuries. If you look at the treaties, and day-to-day workings of the branches of government the language was confusing and obscure. The Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, were meant to be read by the populace. However, the branches of government needed to use a more precise vocabulary. It is common sense to let the government continue as it has and as any government would. To change this is to beg for anarchy.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2008, 10:24 AM
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I'd like to step back from the hair-splitting.

Women are entitled to social, political, and economic equality. That's radical? Those are human rights. Women are human. Women's rights are human rights. If we call ourselves a just, humane society, then we ought to support that. Denying women social, political, and economic equality violates the human rights of the female half of humanity. Yes, I know, we could get bogged down over how to define terms. But opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment (I can't believe this is 21st Century America, and we're still debating this) usually grows from a wish to deny women our human rights. Or I don't know, maybe the people who oppose the Equal Rights Amendment most vocally and with the most hostility take really, really proactive, aggressive measures to seek equality for women. Maybe they strongly denounce gender bigotry wherever they see or hear it. Maybe their only problem with the ERA is with technicalities like those people here are beating to death.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2008, 05:59 PM
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Default Gay People as Second Class Citizens

It all boils down to your hostility against Homosexual, Bisexual, Lesbian, and Transgendered people ... doesn't it?! American citizens have legal protection against discrimination in employment, housing, public accomodation, education, credit, etc etc ad infinitum -- but you feel these civil rights protections should not be extended to American citizens who are also part of the gay community.

You don't have any gay friends, do you?
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Old 04-20-2008, 06:21 PM
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This has nothing to do with those people.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2008, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Phillybud View Post
It all boils down to your hostility against Homosexual, Bisexual, Lesbian, and Transgendered people ... doesn't it?! American citizens have legal protection against discrimination in employment, housing, public accomodation, education, credit, etc etc ad infinitum -- but you feel these civil rights protections should not be extended to American citizens who are also part of the gay community.

You don't have any gay friends, do you?

You have absolutely no idea about my feelings towards homosexuals, bisexuals, lesbians, and transgendered people . My objection within this thread is not with these people as such, but is with laws which are advanced and designed to subjugate an inalienable right of mankind to mutually agree in their business contracts and associations with each other.

Did it ever dawn on you that the right I mention, a right which I believe is an inalienable right, ought to be freely exercised by all, regardless of gender, race, or sexual orientation, etc?

Tell me, would you take a slap at me as you have had I been arguing that heterosexuals are attempting to have a law passed which forbids homosexuals from refusing to hiring heterosexuals because of their sexual orientation?

Do you really have a problem with a homosexual store owner wanting to only hire other homosexuals? Do you really have a problem with lesbian business owners wanting to be free to only hire other lesbians? Why do you have such a problem with people simply being left free to mutually agree in their business contracts and associations? What is the big freaken deal?

Those who support the amendment in question have the same mentality as our smoke control freaks, who also seek to use the force of government to seize control over other people’s property for their own personal use and enjoyment, and, they cleverly disguise their motives as being a public health issue. Similarly, many who promote the ERA are also focusing on the property of others, and seek to use the force of government to preclude a business owner or property owner from rejecting an unwanted contract or business deal with a “protected class” created by the language of the amendment.

Seems to me unlike other “governments” our governments, state and federal, were created to protect the inalienable rights of all individuals, so long as the exercise of such rights does not infringe upon the inalienable rights of another.

Why do you have such a problem with people being free to mutually agree in their business contracts and associations?


JWK

Last edited by john w k : 04-21-2008 at 08:19 PM.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 02:20 AM
Michael Tree Michael Tree is offline
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Originally Posted by john w k
I suggest you study what our lower state courts have stated, our lower state supreme courts have stated, our united States Supreme Court has stated, our Congress of the United States has stated, and even the American Law Review has stated with regard to the most fundamental rule of constitutional law to be followed when questions arise as to what the Constitution means. What they all point out is summarized as follows:
Since you continue to cite state courts as authorities on U.S. constitutional law, it's obvious you know very little about constitutional law, and are just quoting and requoting the same tired list of obscure cases that you found on a website. We're going in circles here, so at this point I'm just going to drop it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john w k View Post
Seems to me unlike other “governments” our governments, state and federal, were created to protect the inalienable rights of all individuals, so long as the exercise of such rights does not infringe upon the inalienable rights of another.

Why do you have such a problem with people being free to mutually agree in their business contracts and associations?
You answered your own question there. The sorts of discriminatory agreements you're advocating for infringe on the rights of others.

Do you honestly argue that a "No Jews Allowed" country club isn't infringing on the rights and freedoms of Jews? That
government-enforced restrictive covenants to "not sell houses to non-whites, non-Christians, and gays" doesn't infringe on the rights of those people?

Last edited by Michael Tree : 04-22-2008 at 10:12 AM.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by frankdialogue View Post
there is what is called 'administrative law' which are regulations put into place by the various alphabet agencies (IRS, BATF, Child Protective Services, etc.) that were never passed by any legislative body, but are simply bureaucratic regulations used by these various and sundry 'agncies' to ensnare the average person in a spider web of bullshit, to confuse them as to their rights and, ultimately to exert control over them.
Agencies didn't spring out of nowhere, Congress created them. Whenever they make a regulation, it's because Congress granted them the authority to make such a regulation, and gave them guidelines on what regulations to make and what policy goals to further. Congress has many different issues to deal with, so it concerns itself primarily with the 'broad strokes' of policy, the big picture, and delegates the fine details to experts in the agencies.

Last edited by Michael Tree : 04-22-2008 at 10:13 AM.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2008, 01:26 AM
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Default The right to discriminate Vs the right to goods and services

These arguments are tired and quite boring to me. I am old enough to remember when I was living in Miami in 1977 the same "logic" to justify or condone a business person's right to discriminate against a group.

Stay with me and I'll explain it to you: If I am a Christian and I want to run a Christian-only " bed -n- breakfast" establishment that has five guest rooms and three paid employees (and these employees are required to be Christians) ... do I have a problem with that? NO!

If I run a small gay bar and I employ two bartenders and two waiters, why not exempt me from hiring a heterosexual?


If the same Christian built the largest and finest hotel in his city, a twenty-five story four star establishment with 400 rooms and three restaurants ... does he have a right to exclude all non-Christians, both as guests and as employees ... would I have a problem with that? YES!

I am asked if I have a problem with a store owner who is gay hires only other gays and forbids emplyment to heterosexuals? If the store is a 2000 sq. ft. emporium with 20 employees in sales, shipping, office, etc capacities ... YES!!! There are qualified heterosexuals who need the job!

Not so long in this country (not Nazi Germany) a Department Store in Harlem - of all places - refused to hire black employees. There were cities and towns all over America that would refuse lodging to Jews (didn't you ever see the movie "Gentleman's Agreement"?)
No, if you are the manager of a department store you DO NOT have the right to exclude gay people because your "right to discriminate" is trumped by the gay person's "right to get employment". You DO NOT have the right to exclude an African American couple from your rental apartment building even if you and the other tenants want to keep the building 'all white'. The couple's right to have a place to live trumps your "right" to discriminate.
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