How much carbon is released by home fires?

Stupid!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/03/03/...ref=newssearch

__________________
Drown the fishes.

You're expecting logic from people who believe that property destruction is a good way to get people on your side?

Just think of the chemicals that are released into the atmosphere when these super-geniuses blow up car dealerships!

__________________
Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. -- Justice Louis D. Brandeis

Vote Adam Lang for Congress - www.adamlang.com

So is PETA still making official contributions to Earth Liberation Front or what? This is an absolute outrage that PETA is still tax exempt when they openly support this. What government official would a letter most affect to start getting the question asked whether PETA still deserves to be tax exempt. This is disgusting!

How much "carbon" would be released by these palatial houses being out in the middle of no where, their occupants having to warm and cool huge volumes of air (for god knows how many decades?), them needing to drive to get everywhere, and so on and so forth? How many trees were cleared from the wooded area so that those bozos could build their palace, and how much "carbon" could those trees have absorbed?

Just a thought... not that I'm advocating for ELF.

__________________
New term of the day 1/24:
Electile Dysfunction: The inability to become aroused over any of the choices for President put forth by either of only parties in the 2008 election year.
http://www.votenader.org/index.html


5/22, because i'm feeling punny:
As the great Jedi English teacher was quoted in saying, "metaphors be with you."

I absolutly agree that changes can be made to the way people live. But what gives ELF the right to tell people how to live their lives? Or ALF the right to tell people what to eat? These people have zero respect for any view other than their own, and will use violence to achieve that view. I can't believe how many people in this country aren't outraged by this "end justifies the means" mentality. Our country has no problem condemning Islamic terrorists for spreading their ideoligies through violence, but I feel like some people who are "green" are probably smiling right now, but the minute they lose a family member to an islamic terrorist, they would be furious.

I am a catholic who believes Britain has no business in Ireland, but I will be the first to condemn a violent IRA attack on civilians!!

Right, but don't you think that the builders will rebuild? That's a lot of construction material to be used...twice.

I personally prefer inner-ring suburbs and rehabbing of older homes, but burning down new developments isn't the way to go.

Terrorism and violence is an awesome way to turn people off of your cause.

__________________
Drown the fishes.

None at all, that I can think of. That's why what they're doing is illegal. But I don't think these people are stupid, or have not a clue of what they're doing. They're wilfully disobeying the law and in fact being violent about it. Wilful disobedience (non-violently) of societal injustice/unjust laws etc takes a lot of thought and courage, and is what MLK Jr and Gandhi advocated.

I would not put ELF in the same league as PETA, though. I never heard of PETA burning down abbatoirs or something. PETA has every right to spread its word as much as the "Pork-the other white meat" has rights to spread its word...and in fact, meat industry lobbies the Congress hard and gets pretty beneficial (to them) economic policies passed.

__________________
New term of the day 1/24:
Electile Dysfunction: The inability to become aroused over any of the choices for President put forth by either of only parties in the 2008 election year.
http://www.votenader.org/index.html


5/22, because i'm feeling punny:
As the great Jedi English teacher was quoted in saying, "metaphors be with you."

Here is PETA's 2000 annual tax return showing them donating money to ELF.

http://www.animalscam.com/references/peta_elf1.cfm



Being a catholic and supporting the unification of Ireland, I would be furious if I found out the catholic church was funding violence by the IRA. I am so sick of animal lovers defending PETA and not acknowledging FACTS like this, or the fact that PETA paid for Rod Coronado's legal defense, or the $50,000 "loan" they gave his father. Basically, I am sick of everyone in this world condemning violence, except when it supports something they believe in.


And yes, I will easily place PETA in the same league as ELF just like I place Sinn Fein in the same league as the IRA. Ingred Newkirk has repeatedly stated she supports ELF and ALF, even on 60 minutes. How someone can say, well she loves animals, and then ignore these actions is sickening. I don't care that Sinn Fein had some good looking guys in suits begging for Ireland's freedom on worldwide television, the fact they were openly supporting a violent group should be an automatic turnoff for anyone with a conscious. Why people don't put this with PETA is sickening. Its well within PETA's right to do a lot of their "whacky and zany" protests. But when the president openly acknowledges and even signs off on checks to support a convicted terrorist (Not a protester, a terrorist, he taught classes on how to make bombs, and was convicted of arson), this should be front page news because when it comes to collecting donations, they position themselves as "animal lovers" who want a peacefull resolution. They remind me of Hamas opening "schools" to "educate" the children and take donations from Islamic charities around the world to help these children. When in reality, they aren't spending that money on books and pencils, but on bombs and guns, and their "education" is actually bomb making and sniping lessons.


IRA put down their guns and renounced violence, there is no reason these groups can't do the same. For shame on anyone that makes a donation to PETA.

Builders might rebuild, but these ELF goons are making the price of building such things pretty expensive don't you think...no doubt that those who build and buy such places will shell out more money just so that they can raise their collective middle finger to ELF.

But, you see, this got you all the way in Philly talking and thinking about such construction and about environmental effects of such lifestyle. You might not like it, but ELF (and other such groups) get their issues highlighted by such actions, because increasingly, our media-run social thinking doesn't switch on to these real topics unless and until something bad goes off.

Terror groups worldwide thrive on such things because it highlights their issues, or it makes their "assymetrical warfare" possible...they know they're not going to win, but they make others load up on their cost of "winning."


And don't forget that you started this thread off by highlighting how much carbon might have been spewed into atmosphere due to these fires and you thought of them as stupid based on that count. I just wanted to bring to your attention that lifecycle carbon impact of such houses would most likely be orders of magnitude bigger than what a small fire causes, and that the group is certainly stupid, but IMO, not for the reason you seem to point out.

__________________
New term of the day 1/24:
Electile Dysfunction: The inability to become aroused over any of the choices for President put forth by either of only parties in the 2008 election year.
http://www.votenader.org/index.html


5/22, because i'm feeling punny:
As the great Jedi English teacher was quoted in saying, "metaphors be with you."

Look, I'm not a member of PETA nor of ELF. How do you paint PETA in bad light based on their tax returns from 2000? Perhaps back in 1999-2000, ELF didn't engage in violent crimes. Do you know of it being otherwise? ELF is labeled a terrorist organization, and I bet that label didn't go into place by FBI until after 2000. If PETA supported them after they were labeled terrorist org, then you have a case against PETA.

There are good organizations all over the map who supported people or orgs in the past that turned out to be bad actors. You cannot blame the supporting org for the misdeeds of others, just because you don't happen to like the supporting org. I can't think of examples right now, but I'm pretty sure there would be many embarrassing endorsements that people/orgs wish they could take back.


You don't think Catholic church has indulged in violence?! It may not be with IRA and in Northern Ireland, but it sure is documented case in Rwanda's genocide. As late as the 1990s, not in the "dark ages."

__________________
New term of the day 1/24:
Electile Dysfunction: The inability to become aroused over any of the choices for President put forth by either of only parties in the 2008 election year.
http://www.votenader.org/index.html


5/22, because i'm feeling punny:
As the great Jedi English teacher was quoted in saying, "metaphors be with you."