Ineresting read. I hae always been skeptical of the offical explanation of the bombing of the Murrah Federal building in 1995, especially given the fact that the ATF office sent out notices to their agents not to come to work that day and a few mothers who dropped off their children at the day care center in the building stating they saw agents with dogs sniffing around the building earlier in the morning.

It just makes you wonder...

__________________
"If you have the courage to begin, you have the courage to succeed." -- David Viscott

Sounds like it would be a fascinating read. If there's truth to it, then our government owes us some serious answers - which undoubtedly we won't get for national security reasons or some other excuse.

I am not a bush fan, but come on folks...our goverment can't pursue every single thing that smells of terrorism, are you all willing to see your taxes go from 30% to 50% to do this? NO most of us aren't!

The goverment can't be right 100% of the time, look how many other large scale things have gone off without a hitch, NYE at times square, mardi gras, and others that could be so easy for a terrorist to get into.

They are doing what they think is best, none of us are right at our jobs 100% of the time, and unfortunately they can't be either. And I do think that they do what they can, could more have been done, sure, but hindsight is 20/20 we have to realize where we made mistakes and try not to repeat them, isn;t that the best we can ask of our elected officials?

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Some more information concerning this case from Ms. Davis. She was an Oklahoma City television reporter back in 1995 that has devoted a large portion of her time to checking all of the leads of this case. The Clinton administration was faulted for not pursuing the idea of a state sponsor of the first WTC attack more seriously by some as the Justice Department under Reno simply wanted to try people for the act, instead of investigate how they were able to accomplish an act.

http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.o...age=jaynadavis


The Islamic recruitment of two "lily whites" to strike on U.S. soil

While the Philippines connection implies Iraqi involvement in the 1995 terror campaign, intelligence collected by the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare also points the finger of blame at the nation of Iran, the most notorious proponent of state-sponsored terrorism in the world.

The Director of the Task Force, Yossef Bodansky, shared he independently came across the same Middle Eastern suspects KFOR-TV was investigating. In the years that followed, he disclosed sensitive intelligence documents that refuted the notion that two disenfranchised army buddies had the bomb making expertise to execute such a massive attack.

On February 27, 1995, the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism issued a prior warning which stated there would be an "Iran-sponsored Islamic attack" on U.S. soil. Washington, D.C. topped the hit list. The primary targets were Congress and the White House, a foreshadowing of the events of 9-11.

The warning was distributed to the FBI and other federal intelligence agencies. In response to the alert, security was beefed up in the nation's capitol, so the focus then shifted from Washington, D.C. to America's Heartland.

On March 3, 1995, the Task Force chief authored an updated warning that predicted the terrorists now planned to strike at "the heart of the U.S." Twelve cities were placed on the potential target list because of the radical Islamic groups and terrorist networks operating within those cities. Oklahoma City was on the original list.

But more importantly, the Task Force learned that the Middle Eastern terrorists had recruited two "lily whites" to carry out the bombing of an American federal building. "Lily whites" in the lexicon of the intelligence community refer to individuals who have no criminal history and no obvious ties to Middle Eastern terrorist organizations. Both Timothy McVeigh, a decorated Gulf War veteran, and Terry Nichols, a former soldier and Kansas farmer, both fit that criterion.

The 1995 prior warnings were generated from multiple intelligence sources in several Middle Eastern countries over a period of 18 months prior to the Oklahoma City bombing. Intelligence was also gathered from terrorist conferences which took place in the fall of 1994 and early 1995 in which Tehran's overriding desire to strike inside the "Great Satan" was unveiled. Osama bin Laden attended those conferences.

There was ample evidence that an international terrorism offensive, sponsored by Iran and Syria, was about to be launched inside the United States in the spring of 1995, sometime after the start of the Iranian New Year on March 21. However, I must emphasize that at no time did I uncover any evidence that would indicate law enforcement had enough information to stop the bomb.

The Congressional Task Force also obtained intelligence that revealed two "Oklahoma City Islamists" had traveled to Chicago in the summer of 1993 to attend a Hamas terrorist training camp to learn how to make car bombs from readily available, off the shelf materials. According to Mr. Bodansky, the bomb making techniques involved materials and design similar to the type of explosives used in the Oklahoma bombing.

Mr. Bodansky believed the heartland terrorist attack bore a distinct Middle Eastern signature. In his written analysis, the Task Force director postulated the "initial forensic investigation in Oklahoma suggests strong similarities to bombing techniques used by Iran-sponsored Islamic terrorists." He illustrated the uncanny analogy to the Middle Eastern car bomb that destroyed the AMIA Jewish Center in Buenos Aires, Argentina on July 18, 1994. The AMIA bombing involved the Islamic terrorist recruitment of a "lily white" Caucasian who delivered the truck bomb.

The striking parallel to the Oklahoma City operation led Bodansky to deduce the AMIA bombing was a "test run" for Oklahoma City, just as the 1992 bombing of the Israeli embassy in Argentina served as the "test run" for the bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993.


I would like to see a copy of those March 1995 Congressional Task Force on Terrorism reports. If these reports actually wer made before the OK City bombing it is alarming that I have not heard of them before today.

I was able to track down the Texas newspaper which has an eyewitness state that she saw the bomb squad in the parking lot before the explosion. Find the article on page 1 and it continues to page 6.

http://www.panola.edu/library/Panola...5/04-23-95.pdf

__________________
"If you have the courage to begin, you have the courage to succeed." -- David Viscott

Rob:

Would you stop posting this sort of garbage.

The article you posted is from World Net Daily, a virulent right wing web site originating out in Oregon.

Go to the web site: right now, it is flashing "breaking news" over it's lead story headlined QUEERLY BELOVED
WorldNetDaily
Homosexual leader: We
will 'torture' our enemies
National activist has plans to 'go in and
terrify' officials who oppose 'gay rights'

Other stories include such wonderful things as:
Same-sex-marriage foes to rally in Seattle
Hope to fill 47,000-seat Safeco Field, James Dobson key speaker
--Seattle Times

Church organizations face moral quandary
Catholic institutions grapple with handling 'married gay' workers
--Boston Globe

Same-sex marriage required to get benefits
Employers planning to cut perks for homosexuals just shacking up
--San Francisco Chronicle

WND POLL
We're here, we're queer, we're in your face
How do you regard the 'gay rights' movement?

--WND
WHISTLEBLOWER MAGAZINE
WorldNetDaily Exclusive
Today only! WND's radical 'gay rights' exposes FREE
Special investigative reports document shocking, little-known homosexual agenda
--WND

SPECIAL OFFER
'Gay marriage: America's leaders respond'
Brand new! Hear 25 of nation's most trusted cultural figures sound off
--SB Ministries

LAW OF THE LAND
WorldNetDaily
Roy Moore loses appeal (Moore is the Alabama Judge who refused to take the 10 Commandments out of the Ala. Supreme Court)
Special court upholds decision to oust 'Commandments judge'
--WND

LAW OF THE LAND
WorldNetDaily
'Bible as hate speech' signed into law
Canadian measure said to 'chill' opposition to homosexual behavior
--WND

Court: Incest victims can't lose kids
Wisconsin statute had given state power to terminate parental rights
--La Crosse Tribune, Wisconsin

Ruling limits divorced parents' mobility
California determines interest of child, not custody, gives right to move
--San Diego Union-Tribune

Further, nowhere in the article that you posted does it say that World Net Daily owns WMD Books, which published this book.

Even further, go to a range of bookselling sites and you find the same (exactly same wording) reader reviews - from ShopNetDaily (owned by World Net Daily to Amazon). That should tell you that the glowing reviews are plants - either by conservative activists who paste the same review into loads of book web sites or, more probably, planted by the publisher of the book, in order to drive sales. Either way, you can throw away all these glowing customer reviews.

I don't mind you posting this crap (except it does take up space on the site). But at least have the honesty to explain where it came from and what the conflicts of interest are.

__________________
“Cities have the capability of providing something for everybody, only because, and only when, they are created by everybody.” - Jane Jacobs

Chris,

This woman's claims are backed by former CIA Director James Woolsley. She is not the crack pot that you portray her out to be.

Please read the more detailed information from the Center for Security Policy. Do you have a bone to pick with them?

Here is some more information about the center:

National Security Advisory Council

The Center's National Security Advisory Council (NSAC) was originally known as the CSP Board of Advisors. While the name has been changed, the organization's function has not: The NSAC serves as a key instrument for the networking, information sharing, paper production and recommendation dissemination that has been the Center for Security Policy raison d'etre. Under the honorary co-chairmenship of Sen. Jon Kyl and Hon. James Woolsey, former Director of Central Intelligence, the NSAC has also afforded an invaluable sense of community for exemplary members of the security policy community during a protracted period when their robust views and proven judgment ran counter to successive administrations' party lines. The Center is delighted that so many members of its Council are now on leave for government service and look forward to working every bit as closely with them in their new capacities.

Mark Albrecht, former Executive Secretary of the White House National Space Council.

Morris Amitay, former Foreign Service Officer and legislative assistant in the House of Representatives.

William Ball, former Secretary of the Navy.

Kathleen Bailey, former Assistant Director of the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency.

Robert Barker, former Assistant to the Secretary of Defense for Atomic Energy.

William Bennett, former Secretary of Education.

J. Stephen Britt, former Deputy General Counsel for Defense Programs at the Department of Energy.

Charles Brooks, former legislative assistant to Senator Arlen Specter.

Beverly Byron, former Member of the U.S. House of Representatives.

Margo D. B. Carlisle, former Assistant Secretary of Defense for Legislative Affairs.

Henry Cooper, former Director of the Strategic Defense Initiative.

Christopher Cox, Member of the U.S. House of Representatives.

Devon Gaffney Cross, President, Donor's Forum on International Affairs.

Brian Dailey, former Executive Director of the National Space Council.

Midge Decter, former Executive Director, Committee for the Free World.

Diana Denman, former Co-Chair, U.S. Peace Corps Advisory Council.

Stanley Ebner, former Senior Vice President of Washington Operations for the Boeing Company.

Andrew Ellis, former Staff Director, House Armed Services Committee.

Charles Fairbanks, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State.

Edwin Feulner, Jr., President of the Heritage Foundation.

Rand Fishbein, former Legislative Assistant to Senator Daniel Inouye.

Frank Gaffney, Jr., former Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy.

Paul Goble, former Special Assistant for Soviet Nationalities at the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research.

Daniel Gouré, former Director of the Office of Competitiveness in the Office of the Secretary of Defense.

Douglas Graham, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense.

Margaret Graham, Consultant at the Washington Institute.

William Graham, former Science Advisor to the President.

Dorothy (Deecy) Gray, President of D.C. Stephens, Ltd.

E.C. Grayson, former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Navy.

James Hackett, former Acting Director of the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency.

Charles Hamilton, former Executive Assistant on Strategic Trade within the Office of the Secretary of Defense.

Amoretta Hoeber, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Research and Development.

John David Hoppe, former Vice President for Government Relations at the Heritage Foundation.

Charles Horner, former Associate Director of the United States Information Agency.

Vice Adm.William Houser, USN (Ret.), former Vice Chief of Naval Operations for Aviation.

Tim Hutchinson, Member of the U.S. Senate.

Kay Bailey Hutchison, Member of the U.S. Senate.

Henry Hyde, Chairman of the International Relations Committee of the U.S. House of Representatives.

Fred Iklé, former Under Secretary of Defense for Policy and Director of the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency.

James M. Inhofe, Member of the U.S. Senate.

Bruce Jackson, formerly at the Office of Secretary of Defense.

Jamie Jameson, President of Jameson Associates.

Clark Judge, former Speechwriter and Special Assistant to President Ronald Reagan.

Phyllis Kaminsky, former Press Officerfor the White House National Security Council.

Garry Kasparov, World Chess Champion and President of Kasparov Consultancy.

Alan Keyes, former Ambassador to the United Nations Economic and Social Council.

George Keyworth, former Science Advisor to President Ronald Reagan.

Jeane Kirkpatrick, former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations.

Charles Kupperman, former Executive Director of the General Advisory Committee on Arms Control.

Jon Kyl, Member of the U.S. Senate.

Christopher Lay, former Special Assistant to the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy.

John Lehman, former Secretary of the Navy.

John Lenczowski, former Director of European and Soviet Affairs at the National Security Council.

Robert Livingston, former Speaker-designate of the U.S. House of Representatives.

James Longley, former Member of the U.S. House of Representatives.

Carnes Lord, former Assistant to the Vice President for National Security Affairs.

Jennifer Macdonald, former Minority Staff Director of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Subcommittee on International Economic Policy and Trade.

Warren Marik, former Case Officer, Central Intelligence Agency.

Taffy Gould McCallum, writer and consultant.

Tidal McCoy, former Assistant Secretary of the Air Force.

James McCrery, former Defense Intelligence Officer for Strategic Programs.

Adm. Kinnaird McKee, USN (Ret.), former Director of Navy Nuclear Propulsion.

Bruce Merrifield, former Under Secretary of Commerce for Economic Affairs.

Philip Merrill, former Assistant Secretary-General of NATO.

J.William Middendorf, former Secretary of the Navy.

Lt. Gen.Thomas Miller, USMC (Ret.), former Deputy Chief of Staff for Aviation, U.S. Marine Corps.

Dominic Monetta, former Assistant Secretary of Energy responsible for the New Production Reactor program.

Thomas Moore, former Staff Member on the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Laurie Mylroie, former Associate Professor at the U.S. Naval War College.

Robert Patron, Chairman of Business Ventures International.

Richard Perle, former Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy.

Gen. John Piotrowski, USAF (Ret.), former Commander in Chief of the United States Space Command.

Roger Robinson, Jr., former Senior Director of International Economic Affairs at the National Security Council.

Lt. Gen. Edward Rowny, USA (Ret.), former Advisor to the President and Secretary of State for Arms Control.

Albert Santoli, Author and Legislative Assistant to Representative Rohrabacher.

William Schneider, Jr., former Under Secretary of State for Security Assistance, Science and Technology.

Gen. Bernard Schriever, USAF (Ret.), former Commander of the U.S. Air Force Systems Command.

John Shadegg, Member of the U.S. House of Representatives.

James Gregory Sherr, Lecturer in International Relations at Lincoln College.

Bob Smith, Member of the U.S. Senate.

Carl Smith, former Staff Director, Senate Armed Services Committee.

Owen T. Smith, Visiting Fellow in Economic Policy at the Heritage Foundation.

Jose Sorzano, former Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs.

Howard Teicher, former Senior Director of Political-Military Affairs at the National Security Council.

Edward Teller, former Senior Strategic Defense Advisor to the White House.

William R. Van Cleave, Department Head of Defense & Strategic Studies at Southwest Missouri State University.

Troy Wade, former Assistant Secretary of Energy for Defense Programs.

Arthur Waldron, former Professor of Strategy and Policy, U.S. Naval War College.

Malcolm Wallop, former U.S. Senator from Wyoming.

James Webb, former Secretary of the Navy.

Curt Weldon, Chairman, Military Readiness Subcommittee, U.S. House of Representatives.

Faith Whittlesey, former U.S. Ambassador to Switzerland.

Pete Wilson, former Governor of the State of California.

Deborah Wince-Smith, former Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Technology Policy.

Curtin Winsor, Jr., former U.S. Ambassador to Costa Rica.



Are they all crackpots as well Chris???


I don't know a thing about World Net Daily, but apparently you do not like them. Again I posted the more detailed review of Davis' book via the Center for Security Policy. http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org

__________________
"If you have the courage to begin, you have the courage to succeed." -- David Viscott

Rob:
We're on such different wave lengths. If you looked at some of the unplanted reviews of her book, you would have seen that her main source for much of the book was . . . James Woolsey.

And Woolsey, despite his service in the Clinton Administation, was one of the most outspoken proponents of the Iraqi War.

The Center for Security Policy is a very conservative (read Republican right wing) organizationi. If you go through that list of advisory committee members, you cannot find even a moderate of any stature.

Gaffney, who formed the group, was undersecretary of defense under Reagan and has long been considered a hawk on the subject of Iraq. The group was, according to Mr. Gaffney's President's Message was formed to serve the same function as the 1970s organization, Committee on the Present Danger - a group that opposed detente with the Soviet Union.

The Center for Security Policy is as far right as the previous group, upon which it was modeled. And it is closely connected to the Bush Administration. Again, from Mr. Gaffney's message:

Here's the board of directors:
Chairman of the Board
James T. deGraffenreid
President,
First Services Network

Directors
Hon. M. D. B. Carlisle
Former Assistant Secretary of Defense for Legislative Affairs, and former Chief of Staff to Senator Thad Cochran

Mr. Frank J. Gaffney, Jr.
President, Center for Security Policy

Dr. Charles M. Kupperman
Vice President, Strategic Intergration & Operations, Missile Defense Systems, The Boeing Company

Hon. Dominic J. Monetta
President, Resource Alternatives, Inc.

Hon. Roger W. Robinson, Jr.
President, RWR, Inc.

David P. Steinmann
Managing Director, American Securities, L.P.

More on the group:
The biggest beneficiary of Ballistic Missile Defense among think tank’s is Frank Gaffney’s Center for Security Policy, which has received over $2 million in corporate donations since its founding in 1988, mostly from major Star Wars contractors like Lockheed Martin and Boeing.

Gaffney’s board is a virtual "Star Wars Hall of Fame," with members such as long-time Star Wars booster and weapons scientist Edward Teller; former Reagan science advisor George Keyworth; Charles Kupperman, Vice President for Washington operations of Lockheed Martin’s Space and Strategic Missiles sector (one of five Lockheed Martin executives on the Center’s board); William Bennett, free-lance moralist and co-director (with Jack Kemp) of the conservative organization Empower America; Christopher Cox, Republican member of the U.S. House of Representatives; Edward Feulner, President, Heritage Foundation; John David Hoppe, chief of staff for Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS); Jon Kyl, Republican Senator from Arizona; James Roche, Corporate VP and General Manager of the Northrop Grumman Corporation; Curt Weldon (R-PA), chairman, Military Research and Development Committee, U.S. House of Representatives; and Pete Wilson former governor of California and potential Republican presidential candidate in the year 2000. This impressive web of connections in government, industry, and with other conservative think tanks makes Gaffney’s Center the nerve center of the Star Wars lobby.

So, to answer your question, do I think these people crackpots too (your word, crackpots). No, I simply think they are right wing appologists for the security apparaturs and defenders of the Bush Administration.

There's nothing wrong with that - I disagree with most of the stuff they put out. I just wish you would clearly identify such sources for what they are - but then again, you probably didn't know in the first place.

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“Cities have the capability of providing something for everybody, only because, and only when, they are created by everybody.” - Jane Jacobs

That article is utter clap trap distibuted by the right-wing to bolster the Bush administrations disastrous foreign policy in Iraq. Give me a break. A fifth grader could have foreseen the folly of a war to bring democracy to Iraq. They made up reasons to bring the public on board now they try to supress news of the casualties and right wing nuts continue to lie and point out none existant connections. It's sickening.

Geno:
What's scariest of all is how well linked they all are - and they hide their links wherever possible.

Rob posted an article from WorldNetDaily website - the book it was praising was published by WND Publishing, an arm of the same company. Yet nowhere in the article did it mention that they were the publishers. When I looked for an independent review of the book, I found the same reviewer blurbs (verbatum) at Amazon, BBC, ShopNetDaily (owned by WMD) and other sites. Obviously they were posted by the "true believers" or by publicists for the publisher.

When you look at so many of the very conservative organizations, the interlocks between their boards is truly amazing.

Liberals, on the other hand, don't seem to do very well at this sort of stuff. Organizing liberals and those on the left is somewhat akin to herding cats. We all want to go in every which direction.

__________________
“Cities have the capability of providing something for everybody, only because, and only when, they are created by everybody.” - Jane Jacobs

hehehe... world net daily! I don't know whats worse, that or Newsmax.

__________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
-George Orwell