I wrote what's below on my blog as well: http://www.phillyblog.com/diversity_race/

Unfortunately, France misunderstands three key issues. Once, religion, for many, is not simply an “affiliation,” the way one is a member of a Chamber of Commerce or alumni of a college. Religion is a part of who someone is, a great part of the essence of his or her being. Religion shapes how they view the world, and the actions they take given that view. By disallowing some to take part in crucial tenets of their religion, they are not allowing a great number of people to not be themselves.

Two, France misconstrues the meaning of a secular state. A secular state is one that does not allow one religion to be dominant over others. It forces the state to make judgements that are blind to religion. A secular state makes sure that discrimination based on religion does not occur. However, in passing this law, France does discriminate between religions. It says that if your religion requires specific, visible dress, you are not allowed to wear it. The burden this law places on Muslims and Jews are much larger than the burdens placed on Christians. By disallowing, for example, Muslim students to step out the classroom to pray, France implicitly says that the Christian and Jewish practices of religious activities only taking place on weekends, when school is not in session, is preferred. If Jewish children are not allowed to miss school for such holy events as Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, but all students are off for Christmas, it again is saying that the Christian way of practicing religion is the better way.

Three, this law effectively eliminates freedom of religion for public school students. The only students who are allowed to practice their religion freely are those who do have traditional religious garb, such as Christians, who, incidentally, are allowed to wear crosses as long as they are not too big. It denies Muslim girls the hijab and Jewish boys the yarmelke, both symbols of the utmost importance to some Muslims and Christians worldwide. It is a sad day when a government as supposedly liberal as France decides to instead of promoting religious tolerance and harmony take the easy road and simply ban religion altogether.

you mean wearing a sheet is a crucial tenet of a religion?
are they banned from wearing kuran (i don't know much about muslm dress except for the sheet wearers) related items or just the stuff that is over the top? in fact, isn't the sheet wearers only a faction of the islamic faith? not all musims wear it. it will be interesting to watch, as some of the islamic nations modernize, if they retain such sexist policies as being covered head to toe, stayig in the home, etc. I know India is struggling right now as womena re starting to work and, gasp, getting apartments on their own..not just marrying whomever their parents see fit. social change is painful, as we all know. a "secular society" does not guarantee freedom of religion. it can be defined as france pleases.
while i'm not saying france is partiularly right here, they are fighting to stop what they see as moving backwards....to stop cultures that have tendencies they sought to eradicate from their own. plus it pleases the traditional french populace who is afraid of losing their culture...they ahve not historically been a nation of immigrants like th eUs, which , btw, has not readily accepted change in its culture. it's human nature to some extent.
Personally, i think we need freedom of religion but I find is disheartening that such practices are not dropped when immigrating from said countries. and no, you shoudl no be able to wear headdress to get you photo ID. either take it off or don't drive.

Why? Should Latino people not express their culture in the form of salsa dancing or speaking spanish to their friends or naming their kids Spanish names instead of American ones just because they've immigrated? Also, as hard as it may be, there is a difference between culture and religion. Religion does not have cultural boundaries. There are many black American muslim women who choose to wear the hijab, who did not immigrate from another country.

Covering of the body for women is a crucial tenet of Islam that some choose to practice. Not all Muslims wear it just like not all Jewish men wear the yarmulke - that fact in and of itself does not mean that it is not a crucial part of how some Muslims choose to practice their religion.

While kinda of off topic, ALL women who wear the hajib or stay in the home do not feel oppressed, and don't consider the practices sexist.

What "tendencies" are you talking about? France is slowing trying to stop all expressions of religion in their "secular" society. They want to see an end to religion, because they want all French people to be the same. France, in doing this, shows that they do not tolerate diversity, even amongst French people born on French soil. I have a friend who is Muslim and French - why should she have to choose between the two?

Why should you not be able to cover up your hair when taking a picture ID? And it seems that you are only talking about Muslim dress - what about Jewish boys who are no longer allowed to wear THEIR headdress?

i thought he was referring to that woman who wanted to have her entire head covered except for her eyes for her photo i.d.

that's exactly what i was referring to. hey, why can't i wear a ski mask?


okay, naming your kids pedro and having multiple wives, women who are not allowed to work, etc are completly different things. wearing sheets and not showering are different than having festivals and distinct culture. I think the fact that most of the sheets are worn by native born americans is worse. if muslims from foreign countries have not chosen to wear them, why should americans? from what i understand, this is one of th emore ilitant sects of islam. i'm not saying it shoudl be banned, but i see it as a step back in social evolution.


crucial? how crucial can it be? it's just a mode of dress!! from what i gather, it's mostly the most strict and socially conservative islamic sects that choose to require this. hey, i never said priests celibacy was a good thing either.
while that may be true, maybe you should stay home and to go out. they could have said the same thing and deprived my mother of a career. fact is, in islamic countries where fanatics rule, women are pushing th envlope already and shedding this garb for mre western threads. while western isn't everything, it shows a pent up demand for freedom.

that's human anture. there is a distinct, storied French past. chances are your friend is a relative newcomer. they like the way things are. that's why they have so many rulers keeping their farming system in place. while they like socialchange, they like it on their terms. I'm an American but I'm forced to pay for all sorts of crap I hate. I'm fored to do many htings i don't want to do, first and foremost, pay taxes. followed by having to obey idiots at agencies and airports like cattle. i feel unrepresented and disenfranchised. some day i may have to choose between my beliefs and being american. i don't kno what much about their ban, but i understand it's mentality. i think it is the wrong approach though.

i think the whole turn is funny. you have socially progressives reacting to extreme social conservatives in ways they would find appalling. people are people wo why it should it be...that you and I get along so awfully (right?) i was pretty young.

{quote}POSTED B INDIGOWhy? Should Latino people not express their culture in the form of salsa dancing or speaking spanish to their friends or naming their kids Spanish names instead of American ones just because they've immigrated?[/quote]

Yo pal, take yer lips off the pipe. Unless he edited it out, I did'nt see anything relating to Hispanics. I will however say, that while in Wildwood last year, I did not appreciate tripping over dead chickens, choking on feathers, and almost running someone over who was covered in fowl blood, because his Santero told him it would bring him goodluck.

Since Muslim Terrorists will use any adavantage they can to strike us. I support banning Abaya's and Burqa's in this nation. No a women should not be allowed to wear a full face mask while getting Govt Issued pic IDs.
Yes, I support a ban on public religion. Why? Because Christianity is under attack in this nation, while some of these other religions and pseudo religions are allowed to do what ever they want. It's a bs PC policy.
Treat em all as equal, or no special treatment at all.

__________________
"Outside of the battlefield, your enemy can be your friend"...Kojiiro.

Evil unchecked grows. Evil Tolerated, poisens the entire system.

Now Indigo, since you seem to casually forget to list why France has singled out, Jews and Arabs, I'll point them out.

France has the largest Muslim pop in all of Europe. 8 Mil as of their last census. Anti semitism, on the part of Arabs attacking Jews is rampant opver there. And in the last few months, they have even begun attacking christians. Girls wearing the Hiab would hide knives under them, knives that their "male friends" would use whenever neccessary.

Jews wearing the Yarmulke were easily identifiable and attacked, by the Muslims. Canada has the second largest Muslim population in a weastern nation, and they just succed in having various 'civil sharia' laws added to the Canadian legal system....Now do I have to point out where all this is going?

Muslim women don't feel oppressed huh? Why is it, that every time I hear a Muslim woman say that, a Muslim man is somewhere close to her, within earshot?

__________________
"Outside of the battlefield, your enemy can be your friend"...Kojiiro.

Evil unchecked grows. Evil Tolerated, poisens the entire system.

no poop CW. I bet most of the people defending sheet wearing would not stand up for the more conservative sects of christianity and no, i didn't edit out anything about hispanics. my gf is pr...unfortunately their food is not spicy....damnit. i grew up on BBQ and mexican until I moved up to this frozen tundra where they'd heard of neither proper.

Tell ya what, EL go to the Island with your GF. You'll get some Spicy Food.
I was always yapping that my pop (from PR) never made good spicy food. Till I went to PR and had some food with indigneous spices!!
Whew!!!!!! I shat fireballs for a week!

Your right El, the ones who are the first, and loudest to scream about religious tolerance, seem to quickly forget to practice what they preach.

__________________
"Outside of the battlefield, your enemy can be your friend"...Kojiiro.

Evil unchecked grows. Evil Tolerated, poisens the entire system.