hmm, i could probably sell tix....
i'd love to go...esp. now. i just don't ahve time at all. we shall see, we shall see. i barely have time for sleep and beer.

True. But the issue is not about allowing polgamy or not allowing women to work, but about a headdress. Given that, I don’t see a big difference between naming you kid pedro and wearing the hijab.

One, islam is a religion practiced by different people in different ways. What does how SOME forgeign Muslim woman choose to practice their religion have to do with how an American Muslim practices her faith?

[quote] crucial? how crucial can it be? it's just a mode of dress!! from what i gather, it's mostly the most strict and socially conservative islamic sects that choose to require this. hey, i never said priests celibacy was a good thing either. [quote] I know many Muslim women who work, drive, and are very happy with their lives who wear the hijab. Therefore very modern, liberal Islamic women CHOOSE to wear the hijab, not jut those that are strict and socially conservative.

Why does that mean that all women who CHOOSE to wear the hijab should not be allowed to?

Can you please interpret this for me? I don’t understand.

Who is asking for public religion? The issue is a respect for other religions that don’t do things the way Christians do. Christianity is under attack because there are laws based on Christian values and morals that have no place in a society that says respects religious freedom, which includes the right to not have any religion at all, ie. secularism.

No, I haven’t. If Arab children want to attack Jewish and Christian children, they will, with or without the hijab or yarmulke. Enforcing the ban will only further alienate those who teach the children to attack, and give them a further reason to attack. The answer to dealing with different cultures living in the same area is not to attempt to make everyone the same. France needs to take the harder road of enforcing the laws against violence and creating a multi-cultural society. Because this ban will only lead to others, ending in the ban against religion and religious symbols in all walks of life, not just public schools.

The ban and support for it is fueled by misconception about Islam, as a religion. People are confused and mislead by the acts of people claiming to be acting on Islam, but violence and anti-Semitism are no more Islam than the KKK is Christianity. Millions of Islamic women are being oppressed, and the hijab is one symbol of that oppression for them, but just as many Muslim women freely and happily wear their hijab as a symbol of their faith, as an Amish woman wears her headdress.

i'd have a problem if the amish started wearing ski masks though.
polygamy has everything to do with it since the sects that require hejobs also support polygamy, etc. in countries where it's legal. can you imagine that stance by the catholic church?
why does one ahve to wear a sheet to have faith in God/Allah? I understand the amish approach to life, but not the purpose of a hejab? please explain what th epurpose of one of these headresses is?
I wasn;t referring to the people but the sect of the religion. from the few cabbies I've asked abotu this, they've indicated that most of these sects that require this stuff are the most socially conservative back home.
Depeche Mode
this discussion is in no way an argument for or against the ban. it's theri country not mine. I don't see any human rights being abused. it's nto my right to tell them to be a "multi-cultural' society. if you can't believe in allah and show your face to the world what does that say to me?

Because Allah told them to.

"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women to draw their outer garments around them (when they go out or are among men). That is better in order that they may be known (to be Muslims) and not annoyed..." (Qur'an 33:59)

"Ayesha (R) reported that Asmaa the daughter of Abu Bakr (R) came to the Messenger of Allah (S) while wearing thin clothing. He approached her and said: 'O Asmaa! When a girl reaches the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain exposed except this and this. He pointed to the face and hands." (Abu Dawood)

Men are not supposed to reveal to women, other then their wives, any flesh between the naval and the knees. No gold or shiny things either.

It would seem it serves the same purpose as the female business suit. Maybe the look just needs to be updated. I believe the female family of the prophets were instructed to cover their faces. It is an "option" for all other women.


In general my experience with fundamentalist muslims and their women has been truly odd. What us outsiders with no religion or the wrong religion see smells and looks like oppression. I can't recall ever being allowed to talk to a woman in a hajib, whose face was covered anyway. I got the distinct impression that I was considered cursed and that there was no help for me. Jesus jumpers will generally let me have a normal pleasant conversation with their women folk...

I don't know much about Islam really. I've been meaning to get a few books on it. This is an interesting looking one that i've seen favorably reviewed. Not sure how unbiased it is...

http://tinyurl.com/3erq6

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Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard. - H.L. Mencken

Our nation is built on the freedom of personal religious and cultural expression. Our constitution and bill of rights guarantees it. If a Muslim woman wears a head covering because of her cultural or religious beliefs, she has every right to do so- as she should. If a Jewish person believes that wearing a yarmulke is part of their cultural and religious identity they have that right. If a Christian feels they want to wear a crucifix around their neck they have that right.

The whole movement to ban religious expression in public schools in France, I believe, harkens back to their roots as the birthplace of communism. Marx and Engels both studied in Paris prior to Marx writing the Communist manifesto. As you may recall Marx once wrote "religion is the opiate of the masses." I wonder if Marx even realized that millions would be slaughtered, millions more would have their basic human rights denied, and millions more would live in poverty under brutal dictators because of communism.

If they want to ban religious expression, they must also ban atheist and agnostic expression to be fair, because they are expressions of philosophical or religious beliefs.

Diversity is the fabric of our human existence whether we like it or not. We can cultivate acceptance and reconciliation or perpetuate intolerance, discrimination and religious/cultural animosity.

Peace,

John

ah france.

i watched show once where the woman, an american, sipped into iran under the radar...had to wear the sheets and stuff. talked to the women and you could see the fear of being caught talking to a woman with a camera was palpable. whiel I don't hold that it be banned, as of now, i hold little personal respect for such practices. this idea that it is against their religion to show their face for a photo is ridiculous. what is the purpose of an id if not to ID someone. if she can get away with it, the rest of should be able to as well. why is it not okay to smoke weed as part of your religion? some things should go...like arranged marriages and these sorts of rules and in time, given the choice, people will choose otherwise.

The excesses of religion i'm sure far outweigh communisms

Maybe your religion is tolerant of other cultures and religions. What it if it isn't? I'd want to keep it in check as much as possible. I'm all for diversity and coexistence. I doubt it would take me very long to find a list of religious practices and "forms of expression" that you would want banned.

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Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard. - H.L. Mencken

quite a few people have died as a result of organized religion too.

quite a few have died as a result of communism

The worst offender I would guess is Stalin, 20 million or so? No one knows for sure about the crusades, estimates go up to 150 million. And that's just the crusades...

__________________
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard. - H.L. Mencken