I entirely agree with most of what has been said, except for Jason's grossly insensitive remarks- what a woman chooses to do with her body is her business. I believe there is not nearly enough education- both about contraception and abstinence, as well as supportive services for women who choose to have an abortion.

Keep it legal, protect womens' right to choose; but also offer substantive options and support for women and their significant others if desired.

I am male, but as I mentioned, I have spoken with numerous women who have had abortions and almost all of them had significant grief and emotional trauma and felt that there were not enough supportive services made available to them- or at least ones that they felt confident about utilizing.

I think this is changing, and more support is becoming available, but I do believe when we talk about abortion as an issue (whether we are male or female) we need to think about prevention and follow-up; and not just the act of abortion in and of itself.

Certainly I strongly support lobbying our elected officials and making it clear that abortion, in all of its forms needs to remain legal and safe- I'm just saying let's not forget about the emotional health and well-being of the women who get abortions.

My wife had to have an abortion done and one of her fallopian tubes removed because of an ectopic or tubal pregnancy that she could have died from. We were both grieved by this loss, and had been on an emotional roller coaster from being surprised that she was pregnant to being concerned for her health to being relieved that she would be okay to being grieved that the fetus- a potential human life was lost.

We both went for several months of intensive counseling as a couple that was tremendously helpful in the emotional healing process for us. I can't even imagine what it must be like for a woman to feel like she is bearing that grief all alone. Whether the pregnancy was planned or unplanned, wanted or unwanted it must be tremendously deep sense of grief mixed in with the relief that it was taken care of safely.

What are some of the supportive services available to women who have had abortions or are considering them? I know they are out there as far as support groups and the like, but what is available specifically for woman and possibly their partners in such situations? Perhaps some people here would find that information helpful.


Peace,

John

I posted a blog on a free blog site (I don't know how to load up MT ) regarding this:

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CafeParents.com

Hey John!

I have to say that I'm VERY pleasantly suprised to read your view on this!

I agree that it's the choice of the individual. I also agree that education is the key. But, teaching abstinence alone is like signing a death notice. Pregnancy is no longer the really big problem, but AIDS and other communicable diseases. Kids will be kids, they're going to have sex. If they don't know how to do it carefully, then that's our fault as parents.

A friend of mine had an awesome bumper sticker. It read: If you don't believe in abortion, then don't have one!

So simple, logical and right to the point.

Peter

Excellent Quote!

I prefer to refer to "them" as Anti-Choice people.

i can not honestly believe what i'm reading. i happen to know plenty of women, (more women than men) who are pro-life. you have any kind of statistics to back up your claims? i guess its very scientific to go to a rally and just because you see more men then women you assume that its mostly just men who are pro-life.

i am an advocate for womens rights but i do not think this is a woman's right. i think this is a human rights issue. this issue has been perverted into a mask for people's own reasons for being "anti-life".

personally i think its absolutely barbaric that abortion can take place at any time during a pregnancy but especially right before birth. you mean to tell me that its just perfectly ok to go in and kill a baby 10 minutes before birth? are you human? i got a question for everyone... what difference does it make if you wait that extra ten minutes and kill the baby once it came out? can someone please tell me that? i mean that would be much safer for the woman. if you are concerned for the health and safety of the woman, you should be advocating for that too.

many of you will use the argument that you could not possibly support the baby once its born because of financial constraints or whatever reasoning you have... thats why you support abortion. i feel that it is a pitiful excuse. its a child... no matter which way you look at it. i guess i'm "anti-choice". i'm glad my parents were "anti-choice" and you can be thankful yours were too.

Quote: "many of you will use the argument that you could not possibly support the baby once its born because of financial constraints or whatever reasoning you have... thats why you support abortion."

No, it's just not my friggin' business telling a another human being what they can or can't do with their body. I find it ironic that conservatives who typically favor smaller government and less government intervention into the lives of the citizens are the very ones trying to put "restraints" on a womans body, and her right to make personal decisions.

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Capitalism is like an island of wealth, surrounded by a sea of poverty.

Maybe you should educate yourself as to why partial birth abortions happen. They happen in very limited circumstances when it's risking the life of the woman to give birth. That's the difference. There other situation when abortions are done late term is when the baby is going to die either at birth or shortly thereafter. Frankly, I see these abortions as quite humane, regardless of whether one considers abortions overall to be murder or not.

Give babies the chance at life, you say? I've shared this story already on the blog, but I'll repeat it for you since you seem to believe that there is no justified abortion: My sister was born without bile ducts. She spent most of her little life in utter pain, intubated and dying. She lived about 9 months, during all of which she was in pain, and all of which the doctors knew she had no chance at life. Can you imagine watching a baby die? A baby you wanted, a baby with a name, a face, and your own baby? Can you imagine watching this little thing suffer for 9 whole months? Do you honestly think that people, as humane individuals, should force a child to be brought into the world like that? If my mother had known she would have been born like that, I'm most certain she would have had an abortion.

I should indeed be thankful my mother didn't abort me. Because my mother wanted me, so having an abortion would have obviously been a mistake for her. On the other hand, I can't imagine being brought into a world where I wasn't wanted.

I also can't imagine the world in which my great-grandmother grew up in where abortions were legal, and she watched one of her best friends bleed to death from an illegal abortion.

Indeed, there are plenty of women who are against abortion, but I assure you, philsfan, there are hardly any of them standing up picketing, blocking abortion clinics, and the like.

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Resident of Fishtown, Moderator of Fish/No. Libs/Kenzo forum, Real Estate Agent-Prudential Fox & Roach

I am anti-abortion, as a personal choice, but I acknowledge that it may make sense as an option for women in the case of rape, incest or the health of the mother. Other than that, I think that it is wrong.

I also think that unless it is one of the situations above, it should only be legal with the signed approval of the man who had sex with the woman in question. I will guess that I am in the minority, but this issue is just as much a men's issue as it is a woman's. After all, no man, no sex, no baby. I think that when you have sex with a man you make him part of the equation.

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Sponge
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Soaking up intelligent commentary.

Quote: No, it's just not my friggin' business telling a another human being what they can or can't do with their body. I find it ironic that conservatives who typically favor smaller government and less government intervention into the lives of the citizens are the very ones trying to put "restraints" on a womans body, and her right to make personal decisions.

you are limiting this to a conservatives? in general, liberals slant towards pro-choice but i know a whole lot of liberals who are pro-life and on the other hand, many conservatives who are pro-choice. this is NOT putting restraints on woman's body. this is a human's rights issue - i agree with sponge - the fetus is just as much his as hers and he should have equal say in whatever decision is made. and i love how you brand me as a conservative even though you know nothing about me. all you know is that im pro-life... very judgemental i see.

i am not against abortions in all cases. of course abortion should take place if the health of the mother is at stake. i'm just saying i think that its ridiculous to think that abortion is the result of the simple way out of an inconvient situation. and sponge, you may be in the minority on this board, but you are not in the country. the country is divided evenly in half, 50-50, in its stance on abortion.

i acknowledge that capitalism is not perfect, but can you tell me what other ideology out there is better at this point?

Well, that's the whole idea behind it being a choice.

As far as the father being part of the equation... I can see your point, but for the most part, it's not the man who's got to carry the baby, take care of it once it's born and raise it. It should remain the woman's choice.

If men got pregnant, abortion would be a constitutional amendment.