I used a token and a transfer to get to St. Joe's Prep which was and still to a lesser extent is in the deep ghetto - in 9th, 10th, and part of 11th grade. I actually regret getting a car and ending my use of SEPTA once I got my license, as it really ended my exposure to people I enjoyed seeing. I feel that taking the bus to high school was a character building experience.

In order for a school to be elite, it must ipso facto be able to cull the chaff and only keep the wheat. The suburban public schools do this by the finances of the parents, which is a very inefficient separator. The private and elite city schools use the intellect of the child, which is a much more efficient separator, allowing for greater socio-economic and racial diversity. My high school was amazingly diverse, with every ZIP code in the city represented in my graduating class, and most suburban ZIP codes also. It was also a nice class mixture. Until the suburban public schools offer scholarships to kids from poorer municipalities and start excluding kids whose intellects are less keen they will always be inferior to the best that the private and city schools have to offer.

Spinach,

I didn't send my 13-year-old on a bus to 17th and
Spring Garden; I sent my 10-year-old son on a bus to
17th and Spring Garden. I never regretted it for a
minute. Not only did he get a great education but he
made friends with kids from all over the city, from
all races, all creeds, and all economic levels. Before
that he went to a school in which he was the racial
minority by a great degree. These experiences made him
the adult he is today-a young man with a open-minded
perspective who still takes public transportation
everywhere (no driver's license, yet!), and gets along
with people from all walks of life.

Right now I am sending another 10-year-old to 17th and
Spring Garden and I'll send her to Olney and Ogontz or
Broad and Christian or back to 17th and Spring Garden
for high school, whichever is best for her.

In response to your question "Who wants to put their
ninth grader on multiple Septa buses..." I refer you
to the thousands of parents who apply to Central,
Masterman, and other magnets for their kids every year
and jump for joy if they are accepted.

First off I'm not trying to legislate morality. My reference to Prohibition was in response to a posting asking if I were a Baptist and Prohibition came to mind in my response. I personally don't care if you want to drink yourself into a coma every night in the privacy of your own house. Nor do I care if you go to a neighborhood bar to drink responsibly and then go home. What I DO care about is when your desire to do these things impinge on my rights as a taxpayer of the city. Every time violations like that occur, you are saying your rights trump mine. How far am I allowd to go to ensure that my right to quiet in my home is respected? Can I go next door to the renters throwing a wild party and threaten them with bodily harm if they don't turn down the music? More importantly, am I allowed to inflict such harm if they ignore me and turn the music up? What happens to me legally if I do that? If I can't do those things, then you are saying that drunks/partygoers have more rights than I do. If I CAN do those things, then I'm contributing to the overall decline of civic behavior. So I'm reduced to calling the police to have them enforce civil behavior, a scattershot effort at best.

There are clear laws that define (a) the noise levels allowed by bars; (b) the noise levels allowed by house parties; and (c) the responsibilities of residents in maintaining a civic society. Because we have so many more serious problems in our city, enforcement of the laws we have on the books concerning things like noise and public behavior is put on a back burner, degrading quality of life for all. By bringing back something akin to Prohibition, you are escalating the relative importance of alcohol control laws (and thus by association the things relating to alcohol control, including noise violations associated with excessive alcohol consumption). That was my only point. Are there significant negatives with regards to outlawing alcohol? Of course, just as there is with outlawing of drugs, and Prohibition proved that. But the action of outlawing drugs means that drug violations are given a level of law enforcement attention that mere limitation/control/ordinance is not.

A major difference between the city and the suburb is that the suburb is much less forgiving of violations of noise/zoning/quality of life whereas the city seems to just chalk it up to "city living". In my mind, that's a weak excuse for allowing civil society to degrade, whether in the cities or in the suburbs. Why is it that everyone who tries to raise the quality of life in the city and makes negative comments about city living told to "move to the suburbs"? As city residents, why do we have to put up with a lower standard than the suburbs?

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No matter where you go, there you are. (b.banzai)

I was selected to attend Masterman in elementary school. After graduating 8th grade, I was accepted to enroll at Central and GWC (E&S) among others. Transportation issues were one of the reason that I did not go to those schools. Looking back, it probably wasn't in my best interest to pass on those opportunities. But to be honest, I don't know if I would put my children on a bus to those neighborhoods. I don't believe I willl be around to make that decision when the time arrives. I respect your decisions to send your kids to Masterman. I'm glad that they were able to experience a great atmosphere to learn and develop. BR - for all intents and purposes you went to a private school. Not exactly a public school but I do hear your point about location.

I have a problem with cars and loud motorcycles driving up and down my streets. I will now set up roadblocks to ensure that that my right to quiet in my home is respected.


How often have you actually told people to quiet down and they turn the music up, and the the police call is a scattershot?

I think this is a cheap shot at both us residents and the 5th police district. My street has mostly been able to handle each others parties fine, and whenever there is an issue, the 5th have showed up and settled the issue tremendously. You lack faith in your fellow neighbors and our police force and I take offense to that.



So what do you suggest? Pulling the police out of other, more crime ridden districts to ENSURE your right to quiet in your home?

How about we pull the undercover narcotics teams off of gang survallance and have them set up sting operations to bag those horrible college kids that scream every now and again?

I'm sorry, but looking at the history of manayunk and roxborough, I think this area's present residents are doing anything but "degrading society". The current residents seem to be a great improvement over the history of residents in this area when it comes to "quality of life"


When your suggestion for improving quality of life in the city is prohibition (And yes, suggesting getting rid of bars is akin to that), you will usually be told to "move to the suburbs" by people like me who moved AWAY from the suburbs for the very reason you suggested.


I have been to suburban bars with loud idiots too, but usually these morons get into a car after they are done drinking because the residents didn't want bars in their neighborhoods. I wanted to avoid these situations (When I lived in West Chester, the cabs stopped taking calls after 11), so I brought my education and tax money to Philadelphia were I could live near bars. I wish I could snap my fingers and everyone would behave fine, but unfortunately, reality exists.

You blatantly speak of how much you want us to be just like the suburbs for your own view of "quality of life" something I PAID to get away from. Those comments offend me as a resident that was attracted to this area. Yes, I can't stand the late night yellers and pissers, but they are still much better to me than the same "silent" night every night out in the suburbs. If you are looking for true "silence" then I mean this comment very seriously, look into the suburbs. That is not meant as offensive, that is meant as a true suggestion. People like me want peace and quiet in my house, but I loved walking down the bars last night and hanging out with Flyers fans. Later on, a few of those idiots were screaming. You just have to realize you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want true "peace and quiet", seriously look at the suburbs.

He just needs to live at least six blocks from a bar. I do and we have no problems with drunks where I live. The flip side is that it is a little more difficult to go out drinking if you live where I live, which is one reason I missed the Flyers game last night. Moving near bars and then complaining about bar traffic and attempting to get rid of the bars seems illogical. He probably wants to live on the Henry Avenue side of the neighborhood, but away from the Henry James. Maybe he wants a 'dry' city neighborhood. Manayunk, however, seems an ill fit.

Thank you

There are no problems inside or outside the Henry James. Its the best neighborhood bar in Roxborough.

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"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people".

I wasn't trying to impugn the Henry James - I agree that it is a great bar. This guy obviously doesn't like living near bars, so he should avoid moving near it. I didn't mean that regular patrons should avoid it.

I will actively oppose a bar or pub or any other venue with a liquor license at the address originally discussed in this post.

Vassar is one block long. There already are bars within two blocks of the original address in several directions: Dawson, Theresa's (or whatever its called by the Wissahickon train station), etc... Vassar simply cannot handle a bar at that location.

What to put in that space at the intersection of Vassar, Ridge, and Terrace? Book store, coffee shop, cafe without a liquor license, restaurant without a liquor license, cheese shop, spice shop, art gallery, day care (wait, that won't work b/c cars come off Ridge too fast without looking), bead store, candy store, ice cream shop, athletic supply store...

I have called the police about loud parties. Either they do not show up, tell me later they "drove by with their windows up and couldn't hear any disturbance," or I've had to call them repeatedly at 1 AM, 2 AM, 4 AM. I have asked the CRO to stop by and visit party houses, which doesn't really help. I've spoken nicely to my neighbors and asked them to keep the noise down and not to let the parties run too late. This has resulted in threats, me being told to go back home, louder, later parties, people running through my yard screaming, "F*cking b*tch."

Based on my experience, the City is dropping the ball all over the place. Homeowners' peace and quiet and daily lives are being disrupted by people who want us to be their parents. If you're old enough to move out of the dorms or your parents' house, you're old enough to act like a normal human. If you need parenting, then go back home.

So why don't these kids put down roots here? Maybe they're embarassed when they finally sober up after 5 years. Maybe they figure they'll just have to deal with more of public drunkenness, screaming, yelling, parties that you can hear up and down the entire block when they're trying to put their kids to bed.

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I support Barack Obama.