Not to mention that Washington's is the first system in the US to have contactless farecards.

Yeah, the Mets suck.

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Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia
"Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier." --Gen. Colin Powell

We've had eight years of "decisive," "experienced" "leadership." Why not try intelligence this time around?

The tickets are similar to Baltimore's metro system.

What I don't like is that the new tickets (whether its round trip or not) expire in 3 days. The old magnetic ones weren't tied to a date.

What I do like is that I can buy both patco and the reduced connecting septa fare from the same machine at any of the NJ stations machines. Before it was two machines needed.

From what I recall though, I still have to do two transactions of payment, rather than given an option to do it together. From my experience, when a train is coming, I'd rather put in the $7, make my selection and both fares (the patco ticket, and the two septa receipts) come out at the same time.

Another good thing is that all machines except $20s, and roundtrips can be purchased from all machines.

I didn't like the 8th&market station machines before which only sold one ways, didn't take $20s and would give back dimes and nickels rather than dollar coins. The decent machines would be in Jersey. It would suck when it was late and everything in Philly like the Gallery was closed.

It'd be nice if NJ Transit RiverLine and NJ Transit AC Line fare could be purchased from the same machines too.

Rumor has it NJ Transit wants to go the same way SEPTA is going, thus maybe being able to ride NJTransit and SEPTA with the same card...

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If you can't take the Politics forum...Don't spam the other forums with your political threads.

Money's not that hard to use.


It's not the fare system holding Septa back.

And I'm always against WASTING money better used elsewhere.


We have transpasses. They work very, very well.

Spending $500,000,000 for a new system to replace a functional one is only beneficial becuase of the "advertising" you'd get for free from the news.


As a constant user of Septa I had no problem ever getting on or off due to the fare system.


As always, you think I'm against everything...but I'm against "throwing money" at things that don't need fixing just tweaking.


Every vehicle and entry point has a magnetic reader. Not using what's in place is retarded to say the least.

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I agree with that last statement, but if you're going contactless, you're going to have to upgrade the turnstiles. As I said earlier, at least the data communications hardware is already in place, which it wasn't in New York.

As for the larger point of the disagreement between you and thunda: I agree with both of you and think both of you are missing something. It's true that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," and every transit agency in the US managed quite well for nearly 75 years with cash fares, tokens, and transfers, with the only major expenses being the minting of new tokens and replacement of turnstiles periodically (about every 25-30 years sounds about right). In fact, Miami's mass transit system still uses cash and transfers as the main fare media (no tokens, but there are passes), and it looks like Miami-Dade Transit has no plans to upgrade (the one major change it made was to make the downtown people mover free).

The invention of magnetically encoded cards made tracking ridership data for pass holders easier and more accurate (I don't know when the first unlimited-ride monthly or weekly pass was introduced, but I'm sure it predates the adoption of mag stripe technology by the industry), but not even that eliminated the need to handle large amounts of cash and fare media (tokens). Stored-value farecard techology has advanced to the point where it can dramatically reduce the cost of handling fares, and on a system as large as SEPTA, that represents a significant long-term saving that would quite likely justify the investment over the 30-odd year lifespan of the hardware. What SEPTA plans to implement could further reduce costs to the agency by reducing the need to produce separate fare cards for many riders. (I deliberately avoid using the word "eliminate" here, though the technology could do that in theory; in practice, though, there will be riders who, for whatever reason, cannot or prefer not to either pay with plastic or have their payment cards double as transit farecards.)

Sometimes, it is worth making a large investment if it offers the potential for significant savings in the long run. I think this one qualifies.

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Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia
"Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier." --Gen. Colin Powell

We've had eight years of "decisive," "experienced" "leadership." Why not try intelligence this time around?

Yes, exactly. This is large capital project that has the potential to save operating money and improve user experience over the long term. It's worth it.

However, I'll also grant that the current fare regime is not terrible and could be far more useful with a better implementation: more vending machines in more places, ability to purchase with cards, as well as clearer instructions in publications.

Will it save $500,000,000.00? Ever?

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It actually is 1 transaction now. If you select a ticket going to Philly (at least to 8th & Market) the next question asks if you want to purchase a septa transfer (good for within an hour or two of purchase).

you can't be too caught up in the cost (which we don't know yet). there are many benefits that don't go directly into the cost column that are valid. potential for increased ridership from ease of use (larger than you probably think)....the ability to better track ridership patterns and meet customer needs. over the long term, this one can have a substantial impact. to some extent, upgrading infrastructure such as fare payment is simply the cost of doing business (providing customers with an adequate level of convenience and modernization). gas station pumps take credit cards.

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"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

and gas stations pass the cost off to everyone else by setting one price to offset the vendor fees to the cards.

SO when you use cash you subsidize the credit users.

SO the same will happen to Septa.

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