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Old 06-30-2008, 10:05 AM
JugglerDave JugglerDave is offline
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Default 30th St. / Market Construction Even More Dangerous for Peds!

Well PennDOT or whoever is responsible for the 29th St / Market / JFK construction has made a bad situation even worse for pedestrians, bicyclists, and probably drivers as well.

Previously they pretended that 1000s of people do not walk between the northeast corner of Market & 29th Street and 30th Street station. They put out jersey barriers, covered the pedestrian 'walk' signal with plastic so you couldn't see when the signal used to give you walking access, and made it a little difficult. Still, people would walk across the street there and get to 30th with some mild annoyances and only a moderate amount of danger.

Now they have completely messed it up. There are fences on top of all jersey barriers. They have covered the pedestrian signal across market street from 30th street. They have created a NEW exit from 30th street station onto Market Street heading west.

I have no idea where pedestrians or cyclists are supposed to get into 30th from Center City.

It's criminal how virtually no safety affordances have been made for the many many pedestrians in the area!
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Old 06-30-2008, 05:24 PM
Nytecat Nytecat is offline
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For what's otherwise a naturally walkable city, Philadelphia is one of the worst for not maintaining pedestrian pathways during construction. ANY kind of construction, from private buildings to public highways. I don't understand why there isn't more outrage over this.
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglerDave View Post
Well PennDOT or whoever is responsible for the 29th St / Market / JFK construction has made a bad situation even worse for pedestrians, bicyclists, and probably drivers as well.

Previously they pretended that 1000s of people do not walk between the northeast corner of Market & 29th Street and 30th Street station. They put out jersey barriers, covered the pedestrian 'walk' signal with plastic so you couldn't see when the signal used to give you walking access, and made it a little difficult. Still, people would walk across the street there and get to 30th with some mild annoyances and only a moderate amount of danger.

Now they have completely messed it up. There are fences on top of all jersey barriers. They have covered the pedestrian signal across market street from 30th street. They have created a NEW exit from 30th street station onto Market Street heading west.

I have no idea where pedestrians or cyclists are supposed to get into 30th from Center City.

It's criminal how virtually no safety affordances have been made for the many many pedestrians in the area!


Cross Market at a legal open intersection?


and the purpose is to fix the bridge so people can use it for another 50 years?
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:20 AM
JugglerDave JugglerDave is offline
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Cross Market at a legal open intersection?

and the purpose is to fix the bridge so people can use it for another 50 years?
There is no signage.

As far as I can tell, there is no legal open intersection across Market until 30th. And to get there from the north side of Market (where MANY people walk, from the PECO building and other office towers) you need to cross several dangerous intersections in their own right.

This is about the complete disregard of 1000's of pedestrians who use the station and the sidewalks. It's great that they are improving the bridge for the next 50 years.
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:26 AM
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eldondre eldondre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglerDave View Post
There is no signage.

As far as I can tell, there is no legal open intersection across Market until 30th. And to get there from the north side of Market (where MANY people walk, from the PECO building and other office towers) you need to cross several dangerous intersections in their own right.

This is about the complete disregard of 1000's of pedestrians who use the station and the sidewalks. It's great that they are improving the bridge for the next 50 years.
it's interesting that the two worst examples of sidewalk management are both from the state of PA (Convention Ctr and 30th St resurfacing).
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Old 07-10-2008, 06:20 AM
JugglerDave JugglerDave is offline
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I'm happy to say that things have improved somewhat at 29th/Market.

They have painted and well-marked an exit from 30th St station heading to Market St. about 50 ft west of the Schuylkill Ave intersection. This includes a bright painted crosswalk within the 30th St inner loop.

They seem to have placed some orange barrels and moved the jersey barrier a few feet so that there is some semi-reasonable pedestrian walking area.

Unfortunately there is no painted crosswalk across the new "right turn only" car exit from the station, and the pedestrian walk/don't walk signals are still covered with plastic so peds have to guess the timing. (WHY???? The signal timings haven't changed, and there is still a 3 second ped-only advance signal before market turns left towards I-76, you just can't see it).
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Old 07-10-2008, 07:52 AM
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But they closed that corner.

People are actually crossing a closed intersecion.


and yes..

they want you to cross Market then recross Market at 31st.


How are they going to keep an intersection open that they are rebuilding?


Think lawsuits... if it's closed and you illegally cross and get hurt..
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:37 AM
JugglerDave JugglerDave is offline
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But they closed that corner.

People are actually crossing a closed intersecion.


and yes..

they want you to cross Market then recross Market at 31st.


How are they going to keep an intersection open that they are rebuilding?


Think lawsuits... if it's closed and you illegally cross and get hurt..
Zur, you know as well as anyone that people will always take the short path. Signs or no signs, it's human nature. Unless FORCED to, people will not plan ahead nor cross Market south at 29th, walk 2 blocks further, cross north at 31st, then backtrack to Amtrak/Septa. Not going to happen.

So the least PENNDot could do is make it reasonable for pedestrians who are there anyway, within means and without unduly impeding either their construction nor general auto traffic.

When they previously made it as unhospitable as possible for peds (as of a few weeks ago up until a couple days ago), people were STILL using that corridor by the hundreds and thousands, including PEOPLE IN WHEELCHAIRS who I saw heading up the 'one way' 30th exit, heading straight into exiting taxi traffic because they blocked off the 30th st station perimeter itself with additional fencing. C'mon, it was pathetic. At least they've improved it, even if they can't legally declare the intersection 'open to pedestrians'.
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:34 AM
fietserjim fietserjim is offline
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When I first saw this mess about one-and-a-half years ago, I foolishly thought that it would be rectified within a day or two. "Certainly," thought I, "even as indifferent/hostile as Philadelphia's leaders are to pedestrians, someone will realize that you cannot effectively cut off the main walking route between 30th Street Station and Center City." I sure was wrong.
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:28 PM
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you cannot effectively cut off the main walking route between 30th Street Station and Center City."

Hard to believe common sense didn't play a part in the layout and routing of peds. Some people just cant see the forrest thru the trees I guess
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