PhillyBlog - Philadelphia  

Go Back   PhillyBlog - Philadelphia > Who We Are > Getting Around Philly
Blogs Map Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Google
 
Web www.phillyblog.com

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #111 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 04:27 PM
bob2314 bob2314 is offline
Pretzel Vendor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Old City/Waterfront
Posts: 18
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gone down south View Post
I don't think that you understand the physics behind compression foam.

The helmet material will absorb most of the impact that would otherwise be transmitted to your head. If the helmet cracks that means that a lot of force that would otherwise have split open your skull doesn't get transmitted through. It's like a shock absorber - taking the blow to itself instead of to your head.

I could counter stating that I don't think that you've understood the point of this thread or looked in depth at the argument, the strength of materials, biomechanics, or physics analysis involved.

Your statements seem overly optimistic and should really be quantified. What reason do you have to think that "most" of the impact force in this implied collision will be absorbed "away" from your skull?

We know nothing about the conditions of this fictitious collision... speed and angle of the impact? Is this an oblique impact to the skull? Were there any rotational forces imparted to the "victim's" head or torso? Was the helmet impacted by a car, truck, road surface, dirt or asphalt? Was the body dragged? Low speed collision?

Foam compressibility as a protective layer will assist in spreading the impact force over a larger surface area, which is desirable, but may be irrelevant depending on the circumstances of the collision.


This link has some additional empirical data:
http://www.perg.bham.ac.uk/pdf/IRCOBI03.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #112 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 04:34 PM
Litarider's Avatar
Litarider Litarider is offline
Tastykake Maker
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 119
Default Always

I've always worn a helmet, I'm happy to say. One time, a student on a bike who was riding on the sidewalk, against the street direction, jumped a light, collided with me on my bike and knocked me off my bike, which caused the back of my head to slam into cobblestones at 40th and Walnut.

My head hit hard enough to break a piece out of the helmet. I stood up and started to walk away, where upon I lost consciousness on the street. Fortunately a nurse was walking by. I was not able to tell her my telephone number and other important information. She called 911, a cop locked up my bike, an ambulance took me to the ER. The nurse told me I'd had a seizure (I'm not epileptic). The ambulance crew told me I had another seizure en route to the hospital. UPenn gave my head a little CT scan.

The ER doctors all told me that the only reason I didn't have massive brain trauma was because of my helmet. They thought my head must have hit very hard to break the piece out my helmet. I went home and a couple days later tried to destroy the helmet with a hammer. Most of the blows bounced right off, which means that my head hit incredibly hard.

Yep, I'd recommend wearing a helmet and obeying traffic laws, if not for yourself, then for your family and other road users.
__________________
I support Barack Obama.
Reply With Quote
  #113 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 04:48 PM
Malloy's Avatar
Malloy Malloy is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: East Falls
Posts: 13,000
Default

There are few people in this world who go out of their way to find 'scientific' reasons not to wear a helmet.

Millions of real deal riders feel that helmets work based on their experiences falling with/without one. Most doctors agree. Sprinkle some common sense in there, and I'm sold - helmets work. Sometimes simple is good....esp when simple, at its worst, means more protection for your dome.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bob2314 View Post
I could counter stating that I don't think that you've understood the point of this thread or looked in depth at the argument, the strength of materials, biomechanics, or physics analysis involved.

Your statements seem overly optimistic and should really be quantified. What reason do you have to think that "most" of the impact force in this implied collision will be absorbed "away" from your skull?

We know nothing about the conditions of this fictitious collision... speed and angle of the impact? Is this an oblique impact to the skull? Were there any rotational forces imparted to the "victim's" head or torso? Was the helmet impacted by a car, truck, road surface, dirt or asphalt? Was the body dragged? Low speed collision?

Foam compressibility as a protective layer will assist in spreading the impact force over a larger surface area, which is desirable, but may be irrelevant depending on the circumstances of the collision.


This link has some additional empirical data:
http://www.perg.bham.ac.uk/pdf/IRCOBI03.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #114 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 05:09 PM
sugarcoma's Avatar
sugarcoma sugarcoma is online now
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Old City
Posts: 1,853
Default

I love the quotes around the word "scientific." Nice touch.
Actually, neither Bob2314 nor I went "out of our way to find 'scientific' reasons NOT to wear a helmet." We started looking into it OBJECTIVELY, something we obviously don't have in common with magic helmet cult members, AFTER I started this thread, mainly because of the over-zealousness and the testimonial "EVIDENCE" that has been given.
...Because, since both of us are analytical, logical thinkers, we automatically have to see both sides of the story when we see that kind of "devotion" to something.

We didn't expect to find what we did. We honestly just wanted to know if it was worth bothering with, and in the end, given the fact that we both obey traffic laws, have lights, etc., and I, for one, have evaded automobile accidents my entire life due to my driving habits, we feel confident enough that the "extra" piece of gear isn't necessary.

I've already avoided several bike to bike collisions with handitards on bikes that were going against traffic, had no lights, riding on sidewalks and other offenses. How did I manage? Because I ASSUME THEY WILL DO THAT, and I keep my eyes and ears open.

Maybe Bob2314 and I feel slightly more confident from the sparring we've done- we both can take a fall, even an unexpected one, and manage to protect our heads. Most people don't have practice doing that, just like most people don't really know what they'd do if attacked if they've never been. (Not talking about sparring here, though.)

I'm really tired of this subject. I am just DYING to know why no one is telling me that they protect themselves against the sun EVERY SINGLE DAY because IT can kill you. Why not lecture about that? Skin cancer happens to many more people than a bicycle accident, but I BET none of you wear sunblock as "religiously" as you do your bike helmets.

Oh, yeah, and guess what? Believe it or not, doctors don't even know EVERYTHING about MEDICINE, let alone subjects in which they did not study, like physics, so they are just guessing, too, when they say "the helmet saved your life." NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE what the outcome without the helmet would have been in a BAD accident.

Tell you what- Throw yourself in front of a moving bus without your helmet on. Tell me how it works out.
If you make it, do it again with the helmet, and see if you are any LESS injured.
I doubt it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloy View Post
There are few people in this world who go out of their way to find 'scientific' reasons not to wear a helmet.

Millions of real deal riders feel that helmets work based on their experiences falling with/without one. Most doctors agree. Sprinkle some common sense in there, and I'm sold - helmets work. Sometimes simple is good....esp when simple, at its worst, means more protection for your dome.
__________________
~Sugarcoma
-waiting for the terror alert to go up- election in 4 weeks!
http://www.bethbrennan.blogspot.com/

http://www.myspace.com/o1o1o1o1

Reply With Quote
  #115 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 10:03 PM
Dolemite's Avatar
Dolemite Dolemite is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Fitler Square
Posts: 1,964
Default

It's all simple - just do the test I suggested. The bottom line is that as far as your health and safety it's stupid to ride a bike without a helmet, but we all do stupid things all the time for one reason or another. Some people inhale toxic smoke into their lungs, others ingest large quantities of fat and processed carbohydrates, others imbibe mass quantities of poison just for it's feeling of altered reality. It's your body and you can choose to do stupid things with it if you wish, you don't need to try and get public approval because it'll never happen. Even a majority of people that do stupid things with their body accept what they are doing is stupid.
Reply With Quote
  #116 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 11:11 PM
sugarcoma's Avatar
sugarcoma sugarcoma is online now
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Old City
Posts: 1,853
Default

You flatter yourself. I don't need and have never need anyone's approval to do anything. I was curious about other's habits regarding helmet wearing, simple as that. I had NO idea it would cause this amount of fuss.

EDIT: Judging from this guy's blog, I'm not the only person who's looked at the facts behind the myths about helmets.
http://www.copenhagenize.com/search/label/%22bike% 20helmet%20hysteria%22



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
It's all simple - just do the test I suggested. The bottom line is that as far as your health and safety it's stupid to ride a bike without a helmet, but we all do stupid things all the time for one reason or another. Some people inhale toxic smoke into their lungs, others ingest large quantities of fat and processed carbohydrates, others imbibe mass quantities of poison just for it's feeling of altered reality. It's your body and you can choose to do stupid things with it if you wish, you don't need to try and get public approval because it'll never happen. Even a majority of people that do stupid things with their body accept what they are doing is stupid.
__________________
~Sugarcoma
-waiting for the terror alert to go up- election in 4 weeks!
http://www.bethbrennan.blogspot.com/

http://www.myspace.com/o1o1o1o1


Last edited by sugarcoma : 07-15-2008 at 11:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #117 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 11:22 PM
Malloy's Avatar
Malloy Malloy is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: East Falls
Posts: 13,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarcoma View Post
I had NO idea it would cause this amount of fuss.
http://www.phillyblog.com/philly/mis...posted&t=59654
Reply With Quote
  #118 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2008, 08:48 PM
Colin P. Varga Colin P. Varga is online now
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Manayunk
Posts: 2,559
Post

Pennsylvania Injuries Rise After Repeal of Helmet Law

32 percent increase in motorcyclist head injury deaths

42 percent increase in head injury-related hospitalizations

While the head injury death rate increased by 32 percent, there was no increase in the non-head injury death rate.

Total acute care hospital charges for motorcycle-related head injuries increased 132 percent in the two years after repeal of the law, the study found.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...061202844.html

(Hospital beds could have gone to someone else, doctors/nurses could have saved someone else, etc.)

What does this mean for bicyclists?... Helmets work even better at slower speeds.
__________________
RuggerAl 08

Support the Smash Party - Go to Poll
Reply With Quote
  #119 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2008, 09:11 PM
Simon Wolf's Avatar
Simon Wolf Simon Wolf is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lower Italian Market/Eastern Passyunk Square/West Pennsport
Posts: 1,842
Default

Obviously, the OP doesn't want to wear a helmet and was looking for justification for her position. I say she should do whatever the f*ck she wants.

I also have a message to all the automotive drivers in the tri-state area: aim for the chick who's not wearing her helmet!
Reply With Quote
  #120 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2008, 09:18 PM
Simon Wolf's Avatar
Simon Wolf Simon Wolf is offline
Cheesesteak GURU! Wiz with
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lower Italian Market/Eastern Passyunk Square/West Pennsport
Posts: 1,842
Default

One more thought: OP's position reminds me of my grandmother, who refused to wear her seat belt in the car on the grounds that she wanted to be "thorwn free" if there was an accident.

One of my cousins (one of her grandchildren) "got lucky" and was "thrown free" in an accident. He ended on the operating table in a small country hospital with his liver in his chest cavity, screaming his head off until the attending surgeon got there (which took two hours) and while his parents sat in the waiting room, hoping he didn't die.

Ironically (having looked at my grandmother's autopsy report) the coroner wasn't sure if the heart attack caused the traffic accident or if the traffic accident caused the heart attack. Either she died and the semi hit her, or the semi hit her and she died. Either way, I'm sure she wasn't wearing her seatbelt.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.