Littering: Higher Fines & Stricter Enforcement - Page 2 - PhillyBlog

DCnPhilly · #11 (**permalink**) 06-20-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyainthehood

These increases in fines crack me up.

There is no one to monitor the littering to write the tickets!!

So, Johnnie Smith is walking down the street and throws his chip bag on the ground. Is a cop gonna pull over and ask him for identification and write him a ticket? What if he has no ID? What if he gives a false id? Gimme a break.

How about City Council and the Mayor put their money where their mouths are and start a city-wide anti-littering campaign? A campaign in the schools directed at kids would be an excellent start.
Maybe some commercials?? Does anyone remember years ago the commercial of an American Indian sitting looking over a vast area of land which was littered? With a tear rolling down his face? I still remember that commercial. I think it was powerful.

The city needs to drill it into people's heads not to throw stuff on the ground. Increase the fines? Yeah, ok.

Also, was Michael Nutter's Philly Clean-up a one time event?

I think city-wide cleanups like that should be on a more regular basis. Get the school kids involved.

That commercial worked too!

You know what a business would do? They would look at the stats: How much revenue has been generated from litter fines? How many people have been cited for littering in the past year? I would not be surprised if the number is a big fat 0. What then, makes City Council believe that raising the fine will stop people from littering when they have the data in front of them that says no one is being cited? The stats show we need a new approach: Enforcement and Awareness. Increasing the fine is a political maneuver and an empty gesture.

raider.adam · #12 (**permalink**) 06-20-2008, 10:27 AM

I agree, I am not thrilled with doubling the fine for challenging. You shouldn't be discouraging people from defending themselves.

I also agree the fine means nothing unless it is enforced, which I am skeptical about. For the three years I have lived in my neighborhood, there is one street corner where people toss trashbags throughout the whole week (no, not a trash can overflowing, but just a normal street corner). If they aren't stopping that, I am skeptical about their ability or willingness to enforce someone dropping a gum wrapper on the ground.

I guess I would be a bit more ecstatic if they spoke more about illegal dumping throughout the City as opposed to overfilling public trash cans.

A question ... since this was before I moved here, was the dumping and overfilling trashcans less of an issue when they had trash pickup two times a week?

cyainthehood · #13 (**permalink**) 06-20-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCnPhilly

That commercial worked too!

Yes it did. Very powerful.

That's what this city needs to do: visual effects.

PhillyRunner · #14 (**permalink**) 06-20-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyainthehood

How about City Council and the Mayor put their money where their mouths are and start a city-wide anti-littering campaign? A campaign in the schools directed at kids would be an excellent start.
Maybe some commercials?? Does anyone remember years ago the commercial of an American Indian sitting looking over a vast area of land which was littered? With a tear rolling down his face? I still remember that commercial. I think it was powerful.

The city needs to drill it into people's heads not to throw stuff on the ground. Increase the fines? Yeah, ok.

Also, was Michael Nutter's Philly Clean-up a one time event?

I think city-wide cleanups like that should be on a more regular basis. Get the school kids involved.

Preach it. I think this is exactly right. Keeping the city clean is something that requires constant vigilance. Also, as much as I think the city should help encourage people to keep the city clean, it would also help if more private citizens took it upon their own initiative to keep their neighborhoods and public spaces clean.

mikeg · #15 (**permalink**) 06-20-2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillyRunner

Also, I wish PA would finally adopt a bottle- and can-deposit law. Yes, I know this might encourage homeless people to root through trash cans, but they do that already; and the deposit would give people the incentive to clean up at least some of the garbage that gets strewn throughout the city.

If I had a nickel for every bottle cap my 3 year old has picked up since we started taking walks in the blocks around our neighborhood, he'd be half-way to having his college savings. Between the bottle-caps and cigarette butts, its obvious there is a mindset problem with a lot of the people living around here.

Along similar lines, my online reports to L&I about neighbors who have not maintained their grass in my neighborhood appears to have borne fruit. I hope the city starts fining the **** out of people for these quality of life issues. It really is depressing to see this little stuff that people think is OK to neglect or allow trash to build up around their property.

Illiniwek · #16 (**permalink**) 06-20-2008, 10:43 AM

The way people litter in this town, the fees from the tickets may be enough to close the city's budget gap.

DCnPhilly · #17 (**permalink**) 06-20-2008, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyainthehood

Yes it did. Very powerful.

That's what this city needs to do: visual effects.

Combined with school programs and enforcement I think it would help.

raider.adam makes a good point though, so much illegal dumping goes on in this city unchecked, how can City Council rationalize fining someone $150 for throwing a gum wrapper on the ground when the city isn't fining people making empty lots their personal landfills? Personally I think they should both be fined, and those doing the illegal dumping sould be fined far more. But the city has to do it's part too, which includes enforcing the law - as well as law enforcement officials obeying the law themselves - and providing adequate trashcans.

Speak to the brainiacs at SCRUB who keep trying to stop the city from using ad revenue to maintain public trashcans.

raider.adam · #18 (**permalink**) 06-20-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCnPhilly

That commercial worked too!

You know what a business would do? They would look at the stats: How much revenue has been generated from litter fines? How many people have been cited for littering in the past year? I would not be surprised if the number is a big fat 0. What then, makes City Council believe that raising the fine will stop people from littering when they have the data in front of them that says no one is being cited? The stats show we need a new approach: Enforcement and Awareness. Increasing the fine is a political maneuver and an empty gesture.

Well, the possibility could be that, by upping the fines to $150, it makes it more cost efficient to dedicate people to litter patrol.

DCnPhilly · #19 (**permalink**) 06-20-2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raider.adam

Well, the possibility could be that, by upping the fines to $150, it makes it more cost efficient to dedicate people to litter patrol.

Very true, if they're organized enough to make that happen. Like Illiniwek said, with all the brazen littering in this town we could stand to profit from this.

raider.adam · #20 (**permalink**) 06-20-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeg

If I had a nickel for every bottle cap my 3 year old has picked up since we started taking walks in the blocks around our neighborhood, he'd be half-way to having his college savings. Between the bottle-caps and cigarette butts, its obvious there is a mindset problem with a lot of the people living around here.

Along similar lines, my online reports to L&I about neighbors who have not maintained their grass in my neighborhood appears to have borne fruit. I hope the city starts fining the **** out of people for these quality of life issues. It really is depressing to see this little stuff that people think is OK to neglect or allow trash to build up around their property.

When I lived in Jersey, I didn't mow my lawn the weekend I went on vacation and when I came back a week later, it was a bit high.

I had a warning saying next time it happened, I would be fined. Apparently there is an ordinance that grass can't be over a certain height and they actively enforced it. They had a lot of problems of absentee landlords not taking care of property, so they made them.