In a city wracked with violence, it would seem there are more important things to do than pick on an organization that provides activites for kids. And if they kick the scouts out, shouldn't they stop there. they shoudl revoke the tax exempt status for churches (and their specualtive property holdings), end sweetheart deals for churches. Personally, I think the city would be well advised to drop this.

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"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

You're preaching to the choir ElDondre. I can't see why churches get to avoid paying property taxes, and dont get me started with them having free use of the streets directly in front of them, either! What really, really bothers me is them taking advantage of those tax breaks, and claiming a right to be free from government interference on the one hand, and then testifying in City Council against an ordinance that expands real estate transfer tax exemptions to domestic partners of gays and lesbians.

The Catholic Church has opinions on everything City Council does when it comes to policies affecting the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgendered Community. The church advocates heavily against those policies. They take out FULL PAGE ADS in the Inquirer, for heaven's sake. How much money is that? Diverted from the mission of feeding the hungry and sheltering the poor. Yet they claim that as a religious institution, it would be a unconstitutional violation for the City to tax them.

Our children do need protection. The children of gays and straights alike need to be protected from bigotry by individuals who aren't bright enough to realize that pedophilia is no more common among gays than it is among heteros, and possibly much LESS common. They need protection from folks who think that discrimination is fine, as long as their own civil rights aren't affected. They need protection from entrenched board members who would rather litigate a losing battle to discriminate than open their minds and channel their limited funds to actual youth programs. They need protection from people who think that the battle to protect unlimited gun purchases in Philly is more important than the need to get some of these guns off the street.

I applaud Mayor Nutter for his efforts to protect our children.

that wouldn't be necessary if the city dropped it's misguided strong arm tactics.
this is a good example of putting self rightousness over protection. nobody needs protection from people who defend gun rights, we need protection from people who commit violent crime. can you not see the difference? drug prohibition is a larger force in violence than lack of gun laws.
It's sad that you've turned this into a rhetorical farce. It makes me think you're more interested in forcing your opinion on everyone than on actually having kids raisesd in a safe, constructive environment with good educations..which is far more important, IMO, than making sure city hall doesn't allow an organization that doesn't agree with you to have some miniscule benefits. just like with gun laws, this is a joke and Nutter should do something more constructive with his time.

__________________
"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

You're not the one being discriminated against, so this discrimination doesn't matter to you. Nice.

$200,000 per year is not a miniscule benefit. That is the entire annual budget for many nonprofit organizations doing good things for the City of Philadelphia. If you think its a minisucle benefit, write them the check.

You know full well that tax exempt status for churchs is federal law. The city could not change that anymore than it could redeploy troops from Iraq to Afghanistan. Red herring.

Plus this isn't about tax exempt status is about a direct benefit given to the Scouts.

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Barack Obama on security, Iraq and Afghanistan. We need a Commander in Chief who knows the differences between Shii'a and Sunni.

Say what? This saga has dragged on for about a decade. Do you think private landlord's should not be allowed to collect rent for a decade. The city has been the exact opposite of "strong arm" in this case.

its pretty obvious reading this your reaction is based on emotion and not common sense or the law.

__________________
Barack Obama on security, Iraq and Afghanistan. We need a Commander in Chief who knows the differences between Shii'a and Sunni.

two gay men have already weighed in on the side of the scouts, something you conveniently overlooked. I don't think I have the right to join every organization nor do I have it.
the city pays the scouts $200k per year?
how do you know "I know full well?" even if that's so, the city still confers benefits to certain churches.

this is an emotional response and you know it. neither common sense nor the law is on your side just because you invoke it to support your viewpoint. violent criminals and drug prohibition are easily shown to be involved in crime (duh) but your anti-gun viewpoint doesn't have proof that lack of gun laws is what's hurting Philly. worse, the whole argument is emotional whether you are for or against it. Personally, I don't have a horse in this race but I see the move as primarily political posturing and self righteousness. the city hands out tons of subsidies to programs that have varying viewpoints, religiouns, and targeted beneficiaries. so what? the scouts do good work. If you don't want your child to be a part of it, don't let 'em join it.

__________________
"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

The Scouts want to use FOR FREE a City-owned building, on City land, that has a fair market rental value of $200,000 per year. It is no small benefit. The Scouts are welcome to continue to use the property at Fair Market rent under their own policies, or they can continue using it for free by repudiating a national policy that discriminates.

You do have a horse in this race. Either your municipal government, which you support with your tax dollars, promotes discrimination by subsidizing a group to the tune of $200k per year in free rent, or it collects fair market rent (so that your taxes can be lower or your municipal services could be better) and the tenants can operate free from any policy interference.

City taxpayers give the Scouts the equivalent of $200K in free rent a year yes. That's $200K that should go to cops or firefighters are keeping pools open. Scouts can have whatever policy they want, but if they are going to do that the have to pay their own way, at least according to the US Supreme Court.

I assumed you knew that. Originally the tax exempt status for churchs was based on the First Amendment in US law and was codified in 1954 as part of the 501c3 non-profit section of the tax code.

Legally churches do not recieve benefits from the city, actually. That would be illegal. Many local politicians encourage chruches to found Community Development Coroporations and public service charitable organizations that do recieve benefits but those charitable organizations are techinacally separate legal entitites. They are also not allowed to violate the law by practicing discrimination either.

No you are obviously spouting off in ignorance of the law.

1. Its illegal for the government to pay direct financial benefits to any church or organization that discriminates on a religious basis according to the Supreme Courts

2. Its specifically illegal according to Philadelphia law for taxpayers to support any organization that practices discrimination

The law is the law is the law.

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Barack Obama on security, Iraq and Afghanistan. We need a Commander in Chief who knows the differences between Shii'a and Sunni.

[quote=cerberus413;781102]Wasnt their lease in perpetuity?
Didnt they build the building in 1928 and give it to the city?
quote]
Want to talk about perpetuity and the Boy Scouts. Aha! Let me tell you a story. The Breyers of Breyer Ice Cream wanted to give the Boy Scouts property on Rte.611, as long as it would never be sold. They went to Harry R. Back ,Esq. past Chancellor of the Phila. Bar and well versed in legalities. Harry drew up the transfer papers with the stipulation that the property would be the scouts in perpetuity so long as it was never sold. The Boy Scouts are self-insured that means from every dollar the boys & adults pay for fees and such a % is supposed to be put aside for insurance, from 1928 till one yr., decades later, an accident occurred on Treasure Island Scout Camp.
Meanwhile a developer had been begging to purchase Breyer Boy Scout Camp. When it came time to settle the damages Phila. Council (as it was called back then) said they didn't have the money. They would have to sell Breyer, which they did.
Want to know how they got around the perpetuity legality? They sliced a small plot and placed a statue on it. So much for perpetuity and the administrators within the Philadelphia Boy Scouts.
$200 K is peanuts when you realize the Boy Scouts have been recieving Govt. grants totalling millions every year of which the majority is spent on Salaries for the Administration.
The Supreme Court had two seperate rulings per the Scouts.
First; As an independent private organization government did not have the authority to tell them what policies they can implement. If they feel keeping gays & athiests and girls/ women from joining, as a private organization that is their right.
Second; No government entitly could subsidize directly or indirectly any organization whose policy discriminates against any U.S. Citizen.
So the current City administration following the groundwork laid out by the Street Administration is trying to keep the Scouts in their Headquarters at a reasonable fee, thus maintaining legal status per the U.S. Supreme Court's rulings.
If each salaried employee of the Boy Scouts were to contribute $25-50 they would have the rent plus excess.
As for maintaining the bldg. and the camps. For the most part this is done by Volunteer older scouts and adults. Twice a year during a special work weekend they open & close the camps doing the repairs necessary free of charge and in most cases even donating the supplies needed from their own pockets. The National and Local Councils don't need to worry about maintainance.
However I will note about 20yrs ago the Winter st. Headquarters needed a new roof. Instead of going within the ranks they hired an outside roofer and then requested those in scouting with roofing knowledge to help, which they did without complaint.