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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2007, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by random View Post
To switch gears -- African civil rights and due process. Not so good. I bet it deters crime though.
Alas, not really. I believe that Johannesburg, South Africa, has the highest crime rate of any major city and that South Africa has the highest crime rate of any country in the world.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2007, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Tree View Post
And even if we are on a slippery slope regarding the rule of law, with the detentions without trial in guantanamo, the abuse in abu Ghraib...
Abu is a great example. People are outraged over it still, and it goes without saying that those responsible were tried and punished. In other countries, they'd be given promotions, here, punishment if a forgone conclusion.
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Old 11-25-2007, 07:27 PM
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Abu is a great example. People are outraged over it still, and it goes without saying that those responsible were tried and punished. In other countries, they'd be given promotions, here, punishment if a forgone conclusion.
Why is it difficult then for some people working for our Prez to say waterboarding is torture?

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g...kIDDgD8SSUOEG0

Our military says it's not OK... why does a Bush appointee have such trouble saying "yes, it's torture"?


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And this is why you should donate to PACCA, not PETA:

In September, PETA made headlines in Vermont and across the nation for asking
Ben & Jerry's ice cream to use human breast milk in their ice cream, instead of cow milk

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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2007, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by EastChestnut View Post
Our military says it's not OK... why does a Bush appointee have such trouble saying "yes, it's torture"?


Because words have meaning and when you stretch them beyond all concievable recognition, truth is the first victim.

If water boarding is torture, what is this?:







Photos of actual equipment from AQIZ torture cell... http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...2torture7.html

Why do you suppose it is that you're so concerned that KSM had to be waterboarded when he lied to our interrogator and I'm concerned with stopping REAL human rights abuses?
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:04 AM
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Guess where Al-Qaeda learn those methods from?

Lets just say when you create a monster, it does come back to bite you in the butt...
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2007, 04:33 AM
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Guess where Al-Qaeda learn those methods from?

Lets just say when you create a monster, it does come back to bite you in the butt...
If you said The Muslim Brotherhood, you're correct, although many of them grew along on the fly.
So what?
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Old 11-26-2007, 07:44 AM
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Since I'm not a prisoner, that doesn't really make me glad to be in America.

American prisons are too soft. If prison were really a place people didn't want to go, we might see a good bit less crime.
I agree. American prisons should look like this:

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Old 11-26-2007, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Tannhauser View Post
Because words have meaning and when you stretch them beyond all concievable recognition, truth is the first victim.
Why do you suppose it is that you're so concerned that KSM had to be waterboarded when he lied to our interrogator and I'm concerned with stopping REAL human rights abuses?

You're avoiding my question. Why did we have a Bush appointee have difficulty in saying waterboarding is torture when the military clearly says it is?
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WHYY pays their CEO $750,000 a year. So WHYY should I renew my membership? Seems they have no problems finding money and spending it unwisely.


And this is why you should donate to PACCA, not PETA:

In September, PETA made headlines in Vermont and across the nation for asking
Ben & Jerry's ice cream to use human breast milk in their ice cream, instead of cow milk
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2007, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by EastChestnut View Post
You're avoiding my question. Why did we have a Bush appointee have difficulty in saying waterboarding is torture when the military clearly says it is?
Because "the military" DOES NOT say it's torture. It's BANNED in the Army Field Manual, but it is NOT defined as torture.

Why do you resort to making untrue statements and trying to argue the meaning of words?

We're in a war against some of the most vile people in the world and you're clearly more interested in painting our efforts in a bad light to score political points than doing what's necessary to WIN.

How can you possibly still use the same word to describe waterboarding as removing a man's eye without anesthetic or crushing a man's head in a vice?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2007, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Tannhauser View Post
Because "the military" DOES NOT say it's torture. It's BANNED in the Army Field Manual, but it is NOT defined as torture.

Why do you resort to making untrue statements and trying to argue the meaning of words?

We're in a war against some of the most vile people in the world and you're clearly more interested in painting our efforts in a bad light to score political points than doing what's necessary to WIN.

How can you possibly still use the same word to describe waterboarding as removing a man's eye without anesthetic or crushing a man's head in a vice?
So, you're saying it's not torture then? It's O.K. for the police to use it to extract information from witnesses and suspects?

Did you ever stop to think that stuff like this might actually incite more people to become terrorists rather than retard them?
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WHYY pays their CEO $750,000 a year. So WHYY should I renew my membership? Seems they have no problems finding money and spending it unwisely.


And this is why you should donate to PACCA, not PETA:

In September, PETA made headlines in Vermont and across the nation for asking
Ben & Jerry's ice cream to use human breast milk in their ice cream, instead of cow milk
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