I think part of it is that naked guy is pretty harmless. Unlike the other wackos on Market, he wasn't hitting people up for money (don't know where he'd put it :wink: ) or insulting people at random. Just the other day I saw one guy get beat up on Market for whatever reason I don't know. The assailant kept on shouting "get up and I'll kill ya". A few weeks ago I saw a violent altercation between two homeless people right in front of Barnes and Noble on Walnut. When a bystander treid to break it up HE was attacked. At least the naked guy made some people laugh.

This is why I discourage people from driving down Market. I know this is where all first timers go because they think this is the best street in the city. However, driving down Market is like driving down NYC's Bowery during the 80's. Usually I direct tourists down Walnut (if going west) and Spruce (if going east). I can't stand it when I see all the toruists who instinctively go down cruddy Market.

south broad street is the avenue of the arts. that has been somewhat untouchable. ther is a police presence there on weekends at least. market st. is the business/tourist corridor. those of us who live in center city rarely go to market st. most everything is chestnut and below. exceptions being in old city or crossing market to go to chinatown or nolibs. I don't understand why they would let such a high visibility area be so infested with aggressive people. let's clear this up now. when is say bum I mean one of these:
i say homeless when i think the person is actualy homeless. or vagrant.
this is why I think the mayor has ot to go. he has dne so little. broad st was the made nice by the last mayor. it has helped. and now you can safely and comfortably walk form rittenhouse to wash. square. 13th street certainly stil has its fair share of weirdos but not the kind on market street. I def think it's worse than it was in the late '90's. guliani was by no means perfect but my aprents were ex-new yorkers (they left in teh '70's b/c it had had downhill.) after guiliani they liked going back (and still do.) we need to improve the quality of lifehere too. somethign has got to be done with those people. perhaps we can fence them off and you can walk by a designated block so you can be harassed if you so desire. kidding.
five, I have a few female friends in teh city. they generally do not stray north of chestnut. from what i've heard, katz actually wants to expand the police dept. i think it's needed. bring back timoney.

Actually I've run into more bums and wackos on Walnut than on Market. Which part of Walnut are you referring to? It seems to me that the bums congregate on Walnut between Rittenhouse Square and Broad, on Broad between Walnut and City Hall, and on Market between City Hall and 11th Street. Given the city's penchant for giving honorary designations to streets, I propose calling this route "Avenue of the Wackos". As for why they congregate along this route, I suspect it is because of all the suburbanites who shop and dine along Walnut and give them money and all the conventioneers on Market. They hang on Broad merely because it is a go between route between Walnut and Market. Interestingly enough, you don't find them so much in Old City or along South Street. I mean they're definitely there but not quite in the same numbers.

The guy being referred to is "Fake Leg". He's usually on Walnut during the daytime and comes to the Hard Rock around 6:30 PM or so. I don't know why he has this routine. Whether you see him or not is a matter of timing. As for why the owners of the Hard Rock don't do anything, I suspect it is because they still adhere to their hippie slogan of "Serve All". One time I saw some managerial looking person coax Fake Leg to leave and then walked along with him, carrying his junk bag, over to the Covnention Center where it appeared like he was dumping him off. In fact, it seems like this passing the buck is pretty common. I've seen Fake Leg alternatively camped in front of the Hard Rock and in front of Champions. I guess the two establishments just bounce him between the two areas.
By the way, I've been hit up for change inside the Wendy's at Chestnut and 15th several times and the owners do nothing. The people there are kids who claim to be fundraising for some charity (selling $3 chocolate bars). An expose on Channel 10 showed that its all a scam. Nevertheless, the owners of Wendy's seem totally content allowing the kids to run their scam in thier restaurant.

I have noticed that Broad is pretty bad between Walnut and City Hall but is relatively wacko-free south of Walnut near the Kimmel Center. You get the occasional mentally-ill person shouting stuff in the air but you don't have the people who camp out on the street saying "f-- you" to passers by like you have north of Walnut. Perhaps the wackos know that Broad south of Walnut is a protected area and this si why they keep to thier prescribed route of Walnut to Broad, Broad from Walnut to City Hall, and Market from City Hall to 11th.

There have only been two times when I've seen bums being told to move. Once was when they were socializing behind the Gallery Mall and another time was when a bum got roused up from his sleep in a park and told to pack up. Thus, when they're not hitting up people for money or shouting insults, they're being told to leave. Meanwhile, the wackos out there going "f-- you *******" to passers-by who don't give them change remain day in and day out. At the same time, I have seen cops tell street performers and artists in Rittenhosue Square to pack it up and leave. I guess the soft targets are the easiest.

Welcome to Philly - that doesn't happen here :wink: . But seriously, one of the places bums hang around the most is in front of the local WaWa. They hit people up for change when they go in and when they leave. The owners of the WaWa know about this and I've seen one worker go out and try to shoo a bum away - to no avail. The cops patronize these places all the time. I think the bums hung out for a while and then, when they see a cop, move on, only to return later. What we need is to have more cops on beat patrol. The police presence in this city is too sporadic.
By the way, the WaWa bums aren't all harmless panhandlers. A few years ago a prominent Inquirer reporter was murdered in Chestnut Hill (of all places) by such a bum when he didn't give him change. One would have thought that after that incident we'd see a crackdown on WaWa bums - not so.

I agree. Market is a zoo but at least it is a contained one. Unfortuantely, the "Avenue of the Wackos" extends onto Walnut as well and Walnut is a prime shopping and tourist destination.

I meant Pine. :oops:

Well, I guess this pretty much seals it for me. When my lease is up, I guess I'll be moving out of Center City. I'm very disappointed that this attitude exists here, since I've grown to like this area pretty much, even though I've only been here a little over a week. I guess I didn't notice this problem that much during the times that I visited here. Now that I live here, I have to say, this is pretty distressing.

In answer to someone's question here, I live near Woody's. So far, the guys who hang out on the street haven't bothered me, and the 'wackos' seem to stay mostly on Market; haven't seen any on my block. I haven't been out very late -- I think the latest I went out is around 10:00.

What a shame. I'm truly disappointed.

__________________
- We must be the change we wish to see in the world -
Mahatma Gandhi

I agree that the wacko problem is pretty bad in Center City. I know there's a campaign out there to get people to stop giving handouts to the bums in an effort to discourage them from being on the streets. However, this has done no good. I'm not surprised since most of the wackos out there appear to be drug addicts and have no other better things to do than hang out on the street. They're not smart but they're smart enough to know that as long as they're hanging out they might as well hit people up for change and get their frustrations out by insulting people who don't give them change. :roll: Then there are our city leaders who see no incentive to do anything about the problem. :roll: It is pretty frustrating and annoying and the lack of civility on the part of these wackos leads to a decline in civility in the general public and to an overall decline in liveability for the city. Its high time our city "leaders" get their act together and do something. Perhaps there ought to be a Center City successionist movement to finally draw their attention to the problems of Center City. :evil:

Walnut east of Broad seems to be fine. Like you've said, there are a few "questionable" characters there but few of the hostile psychotic wackos you can run into on Market or Walnut west of Broad. Like I've said, Market east of City Hall, Walnut west of Broad, and Broad between City Hall and Walnut is "The Avenue of the Wackos". Stay away from the Avenue of the Wackos and things should be fine. Sometimes I think this city needs to get a black eye before it gets better. :twisted: Perhaps by bringing "Avenue of the Wackos" into common usage, it'll draw enough negative publicity to the issue that it'll force the city's hand into doing something. Quite honestly, I don't know of any place that has allowed the wackos to be as prevalent along well trodden streets like Market, Broad, and Walnut as Philadelphia has.

An update on the wacko situation - "Fake Leg" (the bum who occassioanlly follows and insults people who don't give him money) was out in front of Champions today (yesterday he was in front of the Hard Rock). Like I said, he bounces between the two places. Anyway there he was sitting with his legs (well one leg and one plastic peg) sprawled out covering half the sidewalk and asking people for a quarter. I crossed the street to avoid him but wathced him for about a half a minute. Within that time about 8 people walked up and gave him change. Assuming they each gave him at least a quarter that's $8.00 he made in half a minute. Not bad! I wonder if these same good samaritans know that this "noble man down on his luck" once chased a family of four down the street demanding that they give him their take out pizza? Do they know that this individual chased an Indian-American calling him a 9-11 terrorist? Do they know he once walked down Walnut Street calling passers-by all kinds of racial slurs? Also, the people giving Fake Leg money were pretty clearly locals and not tourists. They ought to know better! I guess Philadelphia's wacko problem is three fold: (1) city leaders who don't do anything; (2) wackos who are anti-social psychos; and (3) a naive populace who give to these wackos wanting to relieve some sort of inner guilt. I guess "The City of Brotherly Love" is really "The City of Love for Hostile Psychotic Bums". No wonder these wackos hang out here.

Was feeling a little lonely this evening so went to take a walk and explore a little more of the neighborhood. I walked up Walnut Street to about 18th Street, then back to Broad and down to Pine, then back to 13th Street. As I was walking back toward Walnut, one of the 'questionable characters' was sitting in a doorway. He nodded hello to some young guy walking by who immediately whipped out a dollar and gave it to him.

I could have smacked him. As you mentioned, if you give people money freely in the streets, there's no reason why they would stop begging for it. Geez.

__________________
- We must be the change we wish to see in the world -
Mahatma Gandhi