ok trump.

Originally Posted by SuzyH
Now you can begin to see what realtors and their appraiser cronies have done to us. Not only have they bankrupted this planet, but they've bankrupted another 10 trillion planets just like ours. It's going to take us a long time to pay all that back, and I'm sure the other planets are going to be pissed. If they invade us over this, you'll know who to blame, and don't say that I didn't warn you.

I've skipped most of her posts -- thanks Mr. B for pointing this one out!! OK, Tim, let's see you try to refute the logic of this one! ;-P

http://dealbreaker.com/2008/05/count...l_chairman.php

This is SOFA KING hilarious.

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Buh-bye.

Based on my quick calculations, the TOTAL housing sales of the last 8 years totals just over $14 trillion, so I don't think "we" are "responsible" for anywhere near that kind of "loss".

If you think $140 Billion sounds like a lot, consider the math. $140 Billion out of $14+ Trillion = less than 1%....and that assumes realtors are somehow responsible for 100% of all foreclosures.

I guess it depends on how much blame you like to put on realtors.

I personally look at the bigger picture. Realtors are just small fries in the speculation game..same as flippers. Middlemen and Middlewomen. The bigger culprit was the Fed with it's cheap money policy and deregulation of the banking system with the repeal of Glass Steagall which really allowed the securities and overleveraging orgy to take flight. The subprime fiasco was just a symptom of the disease that was structured finance the remnants of which still remains.....

Suzy on the other hand has it in for folks like you it seems.....one of my better friends is a realtor and he knows what he's about. In private he discusses the ethical dilemmas he faces each day. His panacea is legal justifications (i.e. it may not be ethical or moral but it's not against the law) and the fact he's trying to earn a living like all of us. As taxpayers we are all contributers to the broken system in some form or manner. Opting out is pretty much impossible unless you want to become Ted Kazcynski and go live in a shack out in the woods of Idaho hunting rabbits. At the same time we all do ourselves a collective diservice when we obfuscate the truth for personal gain...

The reason that I have such issue with realtors is that they have held themselves as having an ethical guidebook, one that is followed to protect the interests of "those they represent". Obviously they represent themselves and their interests (namely the holy 6%), but that's not the whole problem. Unlike mortgage brokers, the guys who packaged the CDOs and the CDSs and the MBS toxic waste, and the hedge fund guys, realtors say "hey, we are ethical, we have guidelines, we abide by certain rules, we are members of the NAR, we are going to represent you fairly". Those other guys don't say that. The others are crooks, you know they are crooks, and they did whatever was in their best interests, and you knew that's how they would act. I would be less harsh if realtors didn't represent themselves as something other than crooks. They behaved like crooks, and if it quacks like a duck it is one, etc, but realtors profess (even now) to have behaved ethically during the run-up. It's not so.

That's the basis for my problem with realtors. Keep in mind I've purchased several properties using realtors, and in all cases the people I used are very good and very ethical. Unfortunately it's becoming increasing obvious that these individuals were not representative of most realtors. That 80% of all appraisals during the run-up were over-inflated (in some cases highly overinflated - there's a reason that 2.8 million foreclosures are predicted) speaks to that.

P.S. Do you want me to let you know when the alien invasion is coming? My TV in Idaho has a special receiver that gets the transmissions.

If you look at the big picture there are a lot of reasons we saw the run on real estate the past 5-6 years.

1. Society's "you have to own a house" attitude.
2. The Fed's money policies
3. The mortgage brokers who pushed questionable loans on people who probably shouldn't have gotten them.
4. The lenders themselves for making loans that never should have been written.
5. Realtors and NAR who pushed their "great time to buy! you have to own a house. Don't rent. Real estate is going through the roof." speeches.
6. The people who had no business buying property who did so anyway.
7. The banks/institutions that bundled questionable loans into questionable "securities" and sold them off.

and I could go on and on....

But I REALLY don't think corruption, fraud, etc. had much at all to do with what happened. Sure, it took place, but this run on real estate is the result of what is above, not one group conspiring to get rich or rip people off. Everyone played a part.

I place the most blame on 2 parties, which I think accounted for 99% of the problem. 1) borrowers 2) rating agencies

The rest of the players, realtors included, dont even register a blip on my radar screen.

How can you blame borrowers without blaming lenders? It takes two to tango.

If you've got a Ponzi scheme going and I give you 10K expecting 12 back next week, you're a scam artist but I'm an idiot - we're both blameworthy. Doubly so when if I'm giving you someone else's money.

Exactly!