It would be cool to be able to draw more foot traffic north, I agree. I've recently learned that NoLibs is pretty neat, I hope the company I'm interning with hires me after school *everything crossed*. Is there a commecial district for the area north of Spring Garden? If they worked on trying to get Spring Garden prettied up and get rid of like, the dead gas station next to Silk City (it is dead isn't it?), and un-walker-friendly things like that, maybe that'd help some. Spring Garden is neat, I think it has potential to be an even better transition into NoLibs from Old City.

I agree about Spring Garden. I think it is the most oddly neglected street in Philadelphia. A little cosmetics would go a long way for it. It has the potential to be a draw and I think it would be a great location for a subway one day, connecting No Libs through to the Art Museum and then onwards to West Philly. The one major obstacle is that there are still a lot of un-walker-friendly working industrial & governmental buildings taking up a lot of land in the aforementioned industrial district.

personally, I think SG woudl make good for a trolley as well. At any rate, I think it's more feasible and will have a bigger benefit to the neighborhood if girard/the border bet/ JUNOGI/Fishtown/NL became more lively than a "nice walk from NL to Old City" for the few that woudl venture under the highway to begin with. NL is not cc. It is, close, and a short subway ride into town. making the subway stops nicer and more acessible woudl be a great stride. there's not much you can do with SG on the EL. an add'l trolley connection would help (down DE ave?). Girard, on the other hand, has already beeen renovated. Well lit and has a lot of potential, just my observations. SG is slowly getting nicer with more activity to the west. two restaurants and a soon to be bakery. i bleive ther are condos over there too.

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"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

I-676 pretty much put paid to any integration of anything on either side of that boundry. There was talk of covering it and making it a city park from the Free Library all the way over to around 8th. That would be a great way to allow Chinatown to expand seamlessly northward and to bring Callowhill into CC as well. The other big holdup to redevelopement in this area is the bloody convention center, and whether or not it will expand. A LOT of properties are just sitting as their owners wait - a shame really. As to connecting No Libs to Old City, a street lighting plan and a thorough renovation and relighting of Franklin Park along with better pedestrian access through the traffic there.

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"i live my life in the city"

Most of the area that you all are talking about - south of Spring Garden is industrial - with lots of warehouses and small manufacturers.

In a city that needs jobs, leave it alone. It's only "sketchy" at night. Walk around there during the day and you will find a vibrant commercial (industrial) area.

Everything in the city doesn't need to be cutsy condos.

Besides, the industrial buidings and the companies pay taxes . . . including property taxes.

And by the way, the area is in Old City, not Northern Liberties . . . Spring Garden is the line.

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“Cities have the capability of providing something for everybody, only because, and only when, they are created by everybody.” - Jane Jacobs

I'm offering two of my Philadelphia infrastructure walking tours for Landmarks Tours this fall:
 Saturday, September 27, 2008, 1:00 pm (to about 3:30): CALLOWHILL STREET FROM BROAD TO THE DELAWARE: A continuation of the walk I did on July 29th, this tour will start at Broad & Callowhill Streets and will end at the Delaware River, at Market Street. We will mostly follow the path of the historic creek (now sewer) called Pegg's Run as we stroll through the urban wasteland known as the Callowhill Industrial District. Some folks on the July 29th trek continued east with me and we did most of this tour. With handouts.
 Sunday, October 19, 2008, 10:00 am (to about 1:00): UNDERGROUND PHILADELPHIA: SUBWAYS, RAILWAYS & STATIONS: I developed this tour around 2001 when I became interested in Center City Philadelphia's transit history. It's a 3-hour trek, mostly underground, from 30th Street Station to Reading Terminal. No handouts.
To partake in either of these tours, call Landmarks Tours at 215-925-2251 or email tours@philalandmarks.org for information and the meeting place. Note that there is a fee...
Harry Kyriakodis
215-260-5448 (cell)

These descriptions are from www.philalandmarks.org/landmarks_programs.aspx and www.philalandmarks.org/landmarks_fees.aspx:

CALLOWHILL STREET FROM BROAD TO THE DELAWARE
This 1.5 mile tour focuses on a three block wide swath along Callowhill and Willow Streets, a once bustling industrial zone. Along the way we will see numerous warehouses, bridges and other structures, including the abandoned Reading Railroad Viaduct, Reading RR's Terminal Commerce Building, the Willow Street Steam Generation Plant (pictured) and the Callowhill Industrial District. This is a strenuous 2 hour trek over some gritty streets with uneven Belgian blocks, abandoned railroad tracks and even a set of 300 year old steps!
Saturday, September 27, 2008, 1:00 pm (to about 3:30)
Meet in front of Inquirer Building, 400 N. Broad St.
$15.00 per person includes SEPTA token for return trip.

UNDERGROUND PHILADELPHIA: SUBWAYS, RAILWAYS & STATIONS
Explore Center City's extensive transit system and its three main stations. Start at 30th Street Station and proceed via modern trolley (tokens provided) to Suburban Station. See downtown's underground concourse system and The Gallery before ending at Market East Station. Along the way, become acquainted with the Market Street subway line, the Subway-Surface lines, the Broad Street subway line, the Commuter Rail Tunnel and its regional rail lines, and the former Reading Terminal, now the main entrance to the Pennsylvania Convention Center.
Details not yet listed online, but here they are:
Sunday, October 19, 2008, 10:00 am (to about 1pm)
$15.00 per person
Limited to 25, RESERVATIONS REQUIRED

Yeah, not much space to put stuff, unless you move alto of the buildings there...

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"And Lord, I pray that you would guard your own reputation, because they're going to think that their god is bigger than you, if that happens. So I pray that you will step forward and honor your own name with all that happens between now and Election Day."--Rev. Arnold Conrad

I have a "magic spot" in that area. In this spot, in lieu of Goodwill or Salvation Army, I leave my unwanted items in the morning. By afternoon, they are gone. It is not amazing by any stretch, but every item I have ever left has been snatched up.

The area really isn't that bad. It has Traffic Court, Red Cross, Electric Factory, Firefighter's Lounge, etc. Although the area around Starlight Ballroom is sketchy.

bump

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"

Actually the area isn't in Old City


Old City ends at Vine St. The area is limbo....

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"And Lord, I pray that you would guard your own reputation, because they're going to think that their god is bigger than you, if that happens. So I pray that you will step forward and honor your own name with all that happens between now and Election Day."--Rev. Arnold Conrad