Hi,

My boyfriend and I are considering moving to Fishtown, which seems like it's at the beginning of a long slow gentrification curve. We are looking to buy our first house, and Fishtown more or less works for our budget and seems to be the area most similar to our current spot in NY (Williamsburg, Brooklyn).

Two big questions though:
The Casino: What's the feeling on this? Is it going to happen? There is no chance that we will move to a neighborhood with a Casino. Casinos and gambling are just nasty tricks rich people play on the poorest people. Crime will doubtless go up. And I have a hard enough time keeping my cool when I'm trying to buy a water at a corner store but have to wait ten minutes while the impoverished person in front of me spends half their salary on lottery tickets. Yikes! Don't you think property values there, in an area that COULD really pick up in the next ten years, will plummet if this goes through? I can't make that kind of gamble on a house, as the thought of being stuck in a neighborhood with a casino and dropped property value is too horrifying. Seriously, I want to hear everyone's thoughts on this as it just such a dealbreaker for us an we're desperately hoping it doesn't go through.

And then crime. I live in a very gentrified area of Brooklyn, but I also live across the street from projects. I'm still fairly astonished (and horrified) at the crime postings I see here. Is Fishtown safe? Girls, I'd like to hear from you if possible. Can I walk my dog at midnight, or is that a bad idea?

Thanks everyone! Really appreciate any thoughts you have.

hi, and welcome to philly!

this post should be moved to the fishtown forum though ...

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Freudian Slips: when you say one thing but mean your mother

Fishtowners can correct me, but the site planned for the casino is on the waterfront, across the highway from Fishtown.

It never struck me that the casino would adversely affect property values or the feel of the neighborhood. the concerns seem to be around traffic, and whether it is right that the city should give up a prime piece of real estate on the water for a gross windowless box that could be plopped down anywhere. It's kind of like asking if the Ikea in Red Hook will ruin the south end of Carroll Gardens.

There are segments of Fishtown that believe the casino would be good for the neighborhood by providing jobs in the backyard, so to speak, for the neighborhood.

as to whether it is happening, I can't speculate, although I'd say it seems less likely than it did when I moved here three years ago. But anything could happen.

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be aware that what the GOP says does not mean what it reads and what We perceive as to what THEY say is or isn't, is not what THEY mean. You dig....Great! (ms. e)

You'll be better off in Bridesburg.

Oh shoot, you're right this should be in Fishtown...Moderator? Sorry!

I think census figures, if you had the time to look them up (I don't) would show property values going down and crime going up around casinos.

Can anyone back this up? Regardless, I think casino's are too awful, and we're weighing this in very heavily on our decision not just to move to Fishtown, but whether we want to be in Philly at all if this is the way it's going.

Someone mentioned Bridesburg? I don't know anything about that arrea. I should maybe say also that we are filmmakers and musicians, so we like to be in the areas that are more art/music oriented. We just happen to want a yard too ; ).

Thanks for your thoughts!

He's just being jerky, I think. Fishtown would be a better bet for you.

My guess is the casino question will be solved one way or the other in the next year. The mayor really seems to want to move it, the opposition has been well-organized and effective. they've offered alternative sites. the casinos don't want to wait too long to get started. so either they'll get started in Fishtown or they'll agree to the move before too long.

IMHO, the fishtown casino wouldn't be that bad, if you've seen the site, although I personally disagree that it should be there at all.
it's the Pennsport one that's really horrible.

in the meantime, the uncertainty doesn't seem to be undermining the Fishtown scene any, which keeps bopping along.

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be aware that what the GOP says does not mean what it reads and what We perceive as to what THEY say is or isn't, is not what THEY mean. You dig....Great! (ms. e)

I agree that it's the pennsport one that is the most problematic. I think the fishtown area of the waterfront will be the first to be developed. I also think that fishtown is in the middle of its "gentrification curve." kensington might be in the beginning. You'll have to make a decision. are you buying in fishtown for a nice place to live or as an investment? you'll also have to make your peace with the slots parlors. they don't hurt all poor people, just ones who don't have self control. on the flipside, the money is helping make Philadelphia a better place for the rest of us. in short, it's a mixed bag.

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"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I think a house, even one you're going to live in, has to be thought of as an investment. We do plan on living in it. But I'm worried about becoming trapped in a place that I can't resell without losing money on. We don't have a lot of money, so it has to count!

In regards to poor people and gambling, I think that people in desperate financial situations can't be expected to always make the best, most rational decisions. I can understand the thought process of going, "I only have five dollars, so I should buy a sandwich. But in a few hours, I'll be hungry again. And five dollars is basically nothing anyway. So if I gamble this five dollars, maybe I'll get more money, which would really help, and if not, I've only lost five dollars." Look, in a society like ours, poor people are just basically screwed. I just don't think there's anything ethical about trading on desperation. Even if it brings in tax dollars. But this is a bigger conversation than I really can handle tonight! I won't be saving the world anytime soon anyway ; )

So you won't be moving anywhere with a state-sponsored lottery, then, either? Studies, and I am too tired to find them now, have shown that people that sort of attitude you describe are fare more likely to play lotteries--whether they're legal or illegal, than they are to gamble even on slots. There is a pecking order to games and who plays what.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-fkSYDtUY

"Censorship is free advertising by the government"--Federico Fellini

"Do you mind if I smoke while you eat?"

Fishtown is not for you.