I went to an open house at Memphis Flats recently. The places seem very nice, however the prices they are charging per unit just seem so high, especially in a "buyer's market." My questions for Brooke, or anyone else who would know: 1) are these units moving at all? 2) What are the chances that the price dips down to the $250k, $225k....or even $200k range for a Memphis Flat? 3) Are the newer flats/lofts/condos in the Fishtown AREA (Memphis, Steel Factory, Ribbon Factory, Candy Factory) selling or are they not moving cause they are overpriced and are likely (in your opinion of course) to come down soon? I was very critical of this area at first, but after hanging around Fishtown a lot in the past month or so, I have COMPLETELY changed my mind. Hoping to find something in that area, at a good price, in about 8mths-1yr; so thanks in advance for any help.

I think a few Memphis Flats just went under agreement. There are maybe 10 Ribbon Factory places under agreement--I got the sense when I was there two days ago they were getting a few more offers in this weekend as well.

I haven't been in the Memphis Flats yet but the project appears well funded and the neighborhood market is strong--it will be interesting to see where prices end up but I would be really surprised if prices dropped below $250K. I don't see them going even that low. The average house price in 19125/REAL Fishtown is around that now--and not all shiny, new with parking, nice appliances, etc.

For the price differential, I'd myself be buying a Ribbon Factory place. If public transportation were more important to me though, you can't argue the Memphis Flats are in a stellar location. Plus, the windows they recently put in look pretty stellar--there's got to be great light.

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Resident of Fishtown, Moderator of Fish/No. Libs/Kenzo forum, Real Estate Agent-Prudential Fox & Roach

Brooke,

I keep hearing what a "hot" area Fishtown is but then I see this on Zillow:

Fishtown Real Estate Overview Population: 5,697
Zindex® $201,000
1-yr change -17.5%


Property is down 17.5% over the last year, according to the site. Will the trend continue and effect the flats/condo market in Fishtown?

I wouldn't go by those numbers there are way too many variables. Homes in my area are selling at prices higher than seen in 2006...but there are only 5000 homes in this area and only the *nice* ones are getting a premium. I'm sure Zillow and the other sites don't show this trend.

Memphis is the nicest loft project in Fishtown by far....but I wouldn't expect appreciation for a long time.

Isn't Zillow "user edited" or something like that? I remember reading something about how it wasn't a very good indicator of real estate anywhere because the variables weren't always accurate, and the users not always honest.

I keep hearing about this site and how it's not really accurate...so I just went on. In the past 6 months, I pulled up all the "sales" in Fishtown. I've been involved in more than they're listing as the total amount of sales. I don't think you can use that as an accurate indicator of anything.

Sale prices ANYWHERE in Philadelphia aren't down 17% according to the Trend MLS charts that TimK posts here.

I *will* say that prices for homes under $200K have soared beyond my belief since the end of 2006...and what you get for $300K has stayed roughly the same. The high end of the market in Fishtown, which is right around $500K has deflated a bit. Maybe 5%? I mark this since I recently sold 2 Rag Flats that would have sold in 2006 for $525K-ish that sold for $500K.

And this is in REAL Fishtown--I think anything West of Frankford and North of say, Dauphin, has since a small slip in prices...and it seems the area East of Frankford and South of Lehigh has seen stagnation in the under $200K market but a modest increase over $200K.

In terms of appreciation of condos--I agree...I think Memphis will take awhile to appreciate, as will most houses. Since there are still a bulk of 1st time homebuyers on the market, if you have a house under $200K or purchase one there, you'll see the most growth in the next few years.

Because of the growth in the area of Ribbon, I think you're much likelier to see short term appreciation there. The Memphis Taproom may be a good indicator of things to come to that neighborhood--I've been 4 times now and it's always been packed and most of the people are coming up from Fishtown, whereas many of these people simply did NOT want to be shown houses in this neighborhood because it wasn't Fishtown.

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Resident of Fishtown, Moderator of Fish/No. Libs/Kenzo forum, Real Estate Agent-Prudential Fox & Roach

The reason why I asked you the question in the first place was because I remember reading the above quote from another post. You did not seem as confident that Memphis Flats would sell at the price range that the sellers set. Did something happen giving you a better indication that they could move em @ around 300k? Also, I see that they advertise "72 units." Are they going to continue building units, cause the first building has, I believe, 54; so are they going to add 18 units at some point. Brooke, thanks for the help. I really appreciate it!

Well first and foremost, there's a world of difference between $250k and $300k. While I doubt they can move 60+ units at $300k, $250k for the location and amenities starts to seem like a bargain. You can't get brand new, modern, light and parking in a house for that...

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Resident of Fishtown, Moderator of Fish/No. Libs/Kenzo forum, Real Estate Agent-Prudential Fox & Roach

while we're talking about real estate...and we have an expert in the forum:

i currently live in South Philly, but i went to look at a house on Thompson St. today, just below Lehigh. The place needs a TON of work, but the potential is awesome. That said, i think the owner is asking alot for it considering the condition it's in (around $125k I think).

I went to the BRT site to check out taxes/value/ownership, and it said that the "market value" of the home is around $33K, which is considerably lower than what the owner is asking for it.

So, my question is - how does the "market value" apply when it comes to what a home is on the real estate market for? Or does it at all? I am estimating that this place will need about $100k worth of work, which would bring it into the value range similar to other homes in the area, but I would like to see a nice return on my investment eventually, should i choose to go forward with it...

Any advice?

Market value doesn't have anything to do with market value. Heh. It's just a term the city uses to assess taxes and to put it in a formula to pop out a number. Same with "assessed value."

Your real estate agent can run some comps for you--comparable values of things sold within the past 6 months--in similar condition to let you know what you should be paying for the house--which is what appraisers use to determine what market value is.

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Resident of Fishtown, Moderator of Fish/No. Libs/Kenzo forum, Real Estate Agent-Prudential Fox & Roach