I just checked PhillySkyLine and its in there but not very clear on details, do you have any other info?

It may well be that this proposal is not. I'm not clear what banks making errors has to do with anything. there is no such thing as guarantees. east's reply is funny, but doesn't really say anything. that's how most snide comments work. What is the FNA's record? what is "sustainable" isn't a hotel easilyu converted into apartments? how does the FNA know there is no market for hotels? why is the FNA more qualified than a bank? you'e pointed out that banks make mistakes but you haven't shown that the FNA doesn't make mistakes or even that they represent majority interest. Banks finance lots of things, suburban strip malls (most of which are not abandoned in the Philadelphia area) as well as urban projects. that's really besides the point. If I wanted to lend money to a project, would I trust Beneficial or some community group?

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"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

You don't need to trust a community group. That doesn't mean that the community's reaction to something based upon the fact that residents don't want it in their community for one reason or another isn't a valid reaction and worth consideration for the city board of zoning.

Re: majority's opinion: The FNA is The Neighborhood Association. Ie. if you are a member of the community and want a local zoning say on what is going in your neighborhood, you join it. If you don't care, you sit at home. Neighborhoods work like this--Old City Civic, NLNA in No. Libs, etc. Are you questioning the rationale behind all neighborhood associations or just the FNA? And if just the FNA, then what specifically are they/we doing which is causing your objection?

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Resident of Fishtown, Moderator of Fish/No. Libs/Kenzo forum, Real Estate Agent-Prudential Fox & Roach

all of them. they have too much power in Philadelphia and work more like mobs staffed by the squeakiest wheels. I have problems with the assumptions that a bunch of unelected people who think they know what's best for the community can determine teh viability of a business idea. In the future, these associations need to have much less power. That isn't to say they should have none, but they shouldn't always be able to get their hands in the pot.

__________________
"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

There needs to be balance, community, and cooperation.


Right now, there is only community, and that is subjective.

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TAFKATLB(TheArtistFormerlyKnowAsTheLoveBelow)

Unfortunately, by the time anything gets built at 2nd and Girard, you'll probably be a cranky old person cursing, all the cool kids ruining your neighborhood.

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Teahead215
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That's pretty funny--a mob that you can join, having a voting share in, sponsors clean-ups for the neighborhood, youth activities, a Town watch, gets grant money to maintain parks, etc...all in their free time. Yeah, they're evil, evil people. My particular committee to put a dog park in the neighborhood was the most evil of all. Hey El, you ever been to a neighborhood association meeting? Do you have any idea what you're talking about actually or do you just read Phillyblog about it?

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Resident of Fishtown, Moderator of Fish/No. Libs/Kenzo forum, Real Estate Agent-Prudential Fox & Roach

with all due respect, I never said they were evil people (although that opinion may vary depending the particular association). interestingly you brought up grant money for parks. why do we need it? because Fairmount park has been starved of funds. I read that it's received over a 70% cut from its funding in the early 1970's. The whoel development process is broken. community associations can, but don't always, represent community interests for things such as parking (I don't own the spot but damn it, it's mine!)and real problems such as crime. Determining the height of every building should not be one of them (which is why we need a new code, one that doesn't require developers to run the gauntlet of bribing various agencies and community groups). Worse, one thing that is NOT the purvey of the groups is whether the business will be successful or not. banks make mistakes and they have information. people posting their feelings on the internet or discussing them in a meeting does not constitute market research. how well was JB's accepted when they wanted to put a second floor in? how many business like that fail because they don't receive approval? Most of these people are not evil but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Just because you are active in an assocation doesn't mean you should have the right to play unelected tsar of the neighborhood. If I start cleaning an abandoned building, it makes the neighborhood nicer but it doesn't mean I own it.

__________________
"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

I think you have an incredibly slanted view. A lot of people at neighborhood association meetings are community business people. You really should come out of your shell and go to a meeting. Theres one this weds at the putnam building, if you dare. And most importantly the neighborhood should have the right to discuss the arrival of a new business that requires any alteration to the physical landscape of the neighborhood. Cause if and when that business fails, its the neighborhood that has to deal with the ramifications.

everybody's view is slanted (fight the tower!), whatever that means. Actually, when the business fails, its the investors and owners that have to deal with the ramifications. I've yet to see a neighborhood ruined by a failed hotel. Hotels usually fail because of the neighborhood. It's also important to understand the connection between lengthy negotiations between developers and community groups (in addition to the city) and its impact on affordable housing. the whole purpose of reforming the zoning code is to reduce the need for such negotiations because they are time consuming and costly...and frequently lead to undue power being wielded by unelected people. as I said, some are more reasonable than others. I have no intention of coming to somebody else's neighborhood meeting.

__________________
"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"