how did the neighborhood meeting w/the police captain go last thursday? i couldn't make it because i hadn't moved in permanently, but now that i'm finally here for good thought i'd check-in and see if anything productive happened? thanks,

chris

I also missed due to my little kiddies illness,

anyone know how it went?

:rolling_:

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I would be curious, too. Two weeks earlier we had to shut down Girard Av. exit from 95 to get their attention. What next?

Okay, I was at both events. I haven't posted here because I'm a bit bitter about it and haven't found the most constructive way to talk about it. It's hard because I'm new to the area, but I also, as part of my job, understand the complexities of crime and the judicial system, due process, and constitutional rights, whereas I get the feeling most residents do not.

I'm going to try to be constructive here and not offend: I know people are fed up, but there was a LOT of disrespect to police, men who risk their lives to defend us on a daily basis. Police were offering solutions--residents just kept yelling about 5, 10 years ago. They kept mentioning that they've called for years about drug houses--I mentioned the whole process that residents can get started if the landlord or owner owns back taxes...fell on deaf ears. People blamed the police for kids getting out the next day after being arrested. Police only arrest--they can't charge them with crimes--that's up to the DA. They can't set their bail or their fine or their sentence. That's up to the judge. They can't put more funding into the police department so that there are more of them. Seems like residents didn't want to entertain the possibility that maybe there just aren't enough cops around to patrol the area as thoroughly as everyone would like. One woman stormed out of the meeting after screaming at an officer and got right up in his face screaming. How productive is that? There's a time to be angry and there's a time to try and get a plan together with what residents want for actual change. Sounded like residents just wanted to continue to b*tch about it and were so disallusioned with what they've seen in the past that they thought police were useless. Why even go to the meeting then because what good will it do?

Ugh...sorry, just pretty angry about it. I understand emotions run high, but you definitely win more with honey than vinegar. I felt embarrassed really (as I know a few others do which is why they don't go) and I actually apologized to the chief. I want things safe as much as the next person, but I think residents also have to realize that using police as a scapegoat for all of Fishtown's problems is a waste and not accurate. Residents have to start looking into getting these deliquent taxpaying houses (the ones that are the drug houses) foreclosed upon. It's going to take more effort than complaining though.

I think it might be more constructive in the future to delegate a few people to speak with authorities or agencies and have them meet with residents beforehand...so that it's less crazy and more likely to accomplish something for the next time.

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Resident of Fishtown, Moderator of Fish/No. Libs/Kenzo forum, Real Estate Agent-Prudential Fox & Roach

These meetings do get a little raucous, don't they? And I would agree that we can't blame the police for everything, but we can blame them for not responding to things like assaults, threats, open drug dealing, etc. The 26th is clearly under staffed and stretched thin. But screaming at them probably does no good. That is why we got an active Town Watch going to be additional eyes and ears. They really sold us on the effect it would have. And the response to dozens of drug activity and incident reports? Nothing! Now, I am definitely a newcomer, but have listened to lots of lifetime residents about the reasons for this frustration. And while I also am concerned about due process, constitutional rights, etc., I also know that sometimes you just have to drop a net over a crowd and see what you can shake out of it. The law is never perfect and the creeps know just how to play it. And being arrested is a badge of honor around here; I hear it all the time. I have been physically threatened several times, by teenagers!, and reported it to no avail. Fortunately the creep in question seems to have moved on. Good. Because while I do not actively promote anarchy, it is a historical fact that vigilantism is one of the most effective tools against street crime simply because the criminals never know who might suddenly fall upon them and exact a price for their crimes. Nad there was the assault on Hewson St. of the gentleman at the meeting who tried to break up a big group of OxyMorons. I see lots of lifelong residents reaching a boiling point that might well produce this kind of response. A few high profile arrests, even if they do not result in a conviction, can go a long way to reducing open air drug activity or shutting down drug houses. It also would give heart to people who feel nothing is being done about the problem. And I think that by getting the attention of the police in a big way with our road block, although the press coverage was disappointing, we open the door to get the attention of the DA's office and the judges.

I agree--but here's the thing: if a guy goes to break up a group of kids himself, that's asking to get your butt kicked. I think some of this is that my perspective is skewed based upon the fact that I have a ton of teenage cousins who act the same way and I interpret them as regular teens going through a phase...older folks interpret them all as troublemakers. I passed three boys out tonight (with my dog) who said, "Hello ma'am" that I thought might have been up to no good. I don't know--I understand that sticking up for one's neighborhood is all well and good but that doesn't mean acting without logic.

I also wonder how many of these "problems" are actually veiled racism. I've talked with many folks who leave these meetings and think, "Gosh, I must be really lucky..." and then later think that maybe this whole thing was a bit dramatic. Like for instance the "shooting" a few weeks ago. Turns out that some residents felt like it was a beebee gun while others said it was a real gun. I think some of this stuff gets blown out of proportion.

I don't doubt lack of response--I do agree that the best way to get their attention is not to scream at them and blame them from everything to drug use to high gas prices. Residents stated that they think police should be able to make an arrest because no one in a house works and how else are they supporting themselves besides selling drugs? Um, last time I checked it wasn't illegal to be unemployed. They yelled that kids aren't locked up for life from being caught smoking a joint. I know for a fact through two former DA's that it's pretty much an unwritten rule in Philly that you are not prosecuted for one or less joints in your possession. Can't blame the police for that. And it's not their fault they have so few officers. Are they maybe placed in bad areas? Sure.

I can tell you when my neighbor called the cops on me last week (the trash ticket neighbor) because she alleged I was doing "construction" on my house at approximately midnight, they came within 15 minutes of when she called. (While all you people can't get cops at your house, simply put a garbage can an hour early out to the curb and I'll have one at my house in no time....)

Anyway. It's hard to muck through the rhetoric to determine what the problem really is and it doesn't seem like there's much in the way of a goal except arrest every teenager without due process. I found myself rolling my eyes aplenty.

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Resident of Fishtown, Moderator of Fish/No. Libs/Kenzo forum, Real Estate Agent-Prudential Fox & Roach

Rats. It sounds like these meetings haven't changed much in the last 2-1/2 years.

I'm glad that people care about their lives and that they love Fishtown as much as I do. I just wish more cared enough to work on solutions instead of on blaming and fighting.

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I think Fishtown should look for suggestions from Fairmount. That neighborhood has gone through the same thing, one block is nice, whiloe the next has rampant dealing going on. I think gentrification has had a postive effect there. The more new people move into Fishtown the better it will get, seems a long time away, but it will get better. When the dealers and corner hangers don't recongize anybody anymore they will move on. With all these houses going for 200 k on up, the police will be forced to deal with quality of life issues more seriously than they do now.

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Teahead215
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I totally agree. I just hope new residents get involved rather than getting disallusioned barracaded up in their houses true to form to the suburbs and then leave.

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Resident of Fishtown, Moderator of Fish/No. Libs/Kenzo forum, Real Estate Agent-Prudential Fox & Roach

Teahead said:
I'm an outsider, one of those awful, uncool folks who lived in Old City and is not moving to Overbrook, where I may be a pioneer.

Teaheads statement is one of the saddest statements I have seen on this board.

1. It may be true - that would be incredibly sad.

2. That Teahead might think that people in 200k houses deserve more protection than those who came before - and that is even sadder.

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