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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2005, 01:49 PM
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Few cities except for Baltimore and Detroit have the level of abandonned residential and commercial structures to turn around and put back to constructive use as Philly.

Why spend so much time whining about failed big construction projects when it is so bloody obvious that L&I makes this city a terrible place for small and medium-szied businesses? I honestly don't get it. You guys spend so much time and breath focusing on these kind of all too-obvious phallic symbols and none at all on the tax, L&I, and infrastructure issues that actually hold Philly back. Do you guys really measure a city's worth and vitality by its tall buildings? Seems kind of pathetically "mine is bigger than yours" to me.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2005, 02:06 PM
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Did you actually think the goofy tram across the river was a "smart investment" of limited DRVPA transortation funds? I mean the travesty of the conrete pier is the political grandstanding that allowed them to get so far with such a fundementally bad idea in the first place - not that it never got completed. Part of the reason so many of the more grandiose projects start and fail, is because Philly political culture is all about warring bosses who propose or champion grandiose and poorly thought out schemes as "legacies" but never engage in open, critical planning debates. Its a huge waste of financial resources that could be used far more constructively improving our city but often as not the proposals themselves are fundementally flawed and hence flounder - no big surprise. A more open political culture would reduce the number of hair-brained schemes in the first place so the things that get past the first stages of proposal actually hve legs.
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Old 05-12-2005, 02:09 PM
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Seand, the members of the PhillyBlog community are going to erect a giant tower in your honor right in the middle of university city. It will be 1500 feet tall and will put Philadelphia back on the map!
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2005, 02:29 PM
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Well, I hope some of you advocating a "construction boom" recognize how far the city has come in 10 years. When I returned to Philadelphia in 1996 after a long absence, I can remember:

* The Reading Terminal, the PSFS Building, the Victory Building, City Hall Annex, One Penn Square East, and the Girard Trust Building (now Ritz Carlton) were all vacant and mothballed.
* The old Ridgway Library (now CAPA) was derelict and graffiti-covered.
* I used to get excited to see Naudain Court under construction at 26th & South. It was the only new residential construction anywhere near Center City for a year or two.
* Northern Liberties was a wasteland and rather frightening. Liberties Restaurant was there; the Architectural and Antiques Exchange was next door. But the rest of 2d Street and most of the rest of the area consisted of abandoned buildings and vacant lots.
* In 1997 or so, there was a series of unexplained fires that destroyed a number of buildings in the 1400 block of South. 15th & Lombard seemed like the edge of the known universe. You'd hear about a couple of murders a year on the western blocks of South Street.
* Even in the West Market corridor, Six Penn Center (now 1701 Market St.) and Four Penn Center were mothballed for several years.
* Old City was a shadow of its current self. At 5 pm on a Saturday, it could be rather spooky north of Market.
* Until about 2000, the entire north side of the 900 block of Lombard was a row of abandoned buildings - - all those buildings have since been rehabilitated or replaced with new construction.
* The list could go on: North Philadelphia station was derelict; there was no "Loft District." University City was rough. Etc. Etc.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2005, 04:03 PM
bobbyboy bobbyboy is offline
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I guess I could be a Pollyanna and just put my PJ's on and talk about how it's better if you sleep over...or talk about Cheesesteaks or pretzels.
this all started on a negative note about the slowness in building in teh city, and I was continuing on that thread.
but fair is fair...your right, it is a bit whiny, so I'll give you some great things that I will be showing my visiting friends this weekend. (who lived here, and moved away 5 years ago)

Old City. the National finally getting built, and being incorporated into the fabric of the area. Market street, with the restaurant boom.
The constitution center, the bell pavilion and the visitors center
The Cira center. I love this building.
the schulkyll River park, where I walk every night
The waterworks, where my grandparents courted when it was the aquarium.
The St. James. a really nice addition to east of broad
The Victory Building, which is truly gorgeous.
the Kimmel center, the rooftop garden is something everyone should use as much as possible.
IKEA (go ahead laugh) but the fact that it's one of that companies first inner city stores makes me proud
The Zoo Balloon. the fact that this was the second one of it's kind made me rethink that maybe sometimes we do things right.
NoLibs...which I STILL think is going to be the jewel of the city.
13th street or B3 or whatever it is called these days...this area, has got it right. new development without pushing too many out. Goldman I think is a hero.

this is my short list
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2005, 04:31 PM
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i agree. i'm not a lifelong philadelphian -- i've been here five years -- so i don't have the pure bred pessimism a lot of you do, but i am proud to be here at the present. while a lot of people feel that the residential boom (or mini-boom if we must compare ourselves to the likes of chicago or new york, which is unfair to us) is emblematic of the G word (gentrification), i think these high end projects are just the tip of the iceberg, the high end high points to philly's comeback/growth/solidification.

to address only the two buildings i photoshopped into that picture:

comcast center is something about which we should have a lot of civic pride. never minding the several internet outages over the past month and the high cost of their cable service, comcast has repeatedly shown their commitment and civic pride, and to sign on with liberty property to build on that location really brings the whole idea of a center city boom (or again, mini-boom) full circle. whether or not it's a world class building is up to the beholder, of course, but i think it's a fine design, and i love the fact that it has a flat roof and not yet another pointy top. i think one & two liberty, mellon bank, bell atlantic, blue cross, even city hall and the commerce towers -- i think these are all fine and great and good, but the comcast building is just going to be so powerful. and that it's an environmentally friendly building (skyscraper wise) and especially that it reintroduces suburban station ... well, i think the city got a jewel in comcast center. and they didn't even get the KOZ! everybody wins.

mandeville place: well, ok, this is going to be the highest of the high end, but why not? i don't think it symbolizes the manhattanization of center city, i think it just brings a manhattan element to the schuylkill river. the design is absolutely amazing, in my mind the best and most challenging the city has seen since the PSFS building, and anything to draw your eyes away from that monster 2400 chestnut is a plus.

in addition to what swinefeld linked to at skyscraperpage, i've got a(n incomplete) list of city projects on my site. this list also includes the unfinished or unrecognized projects that some have argued, so it's as well rounded as i could make it: LINK.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2005, 04:41 PM
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I'm wondering, bobbyboy, if you are by chance thinking that Cedar Park is somewhere else other than West Philadelphia by your sleep over comments. Just a guess - it might explain some of the miscommunication going on.

Sorry to be so grumpy, I just kind of reacted to the fact that just because I stated I personally don't find the Comcast tower particularly attractive and suddenly its a chance for everyone to rehash the same "Philly never builds anything -damn NIMBYS" sad song that already been repeated ad nauseum in the Wheeler thread and two or three others.

tozturk- I realize you are joking about the giant tower in the middle of UCity but there have been more than a few posts here on Phillyblog urging a whole lot of just that kind of thing and in a couple of instances I don't think they just meant along the Market St. "Ave. of the Sciences" corridor - but in the heart of the historical residential section where I live as unbelievable as that sounds. Meanwhile I can think of a few quite architecturally striking but boarded up Art Deco apartment buildings around 50th and 51st Chestnut I would fix up myself if I had the kind capital it takes to undertake such a project. Probably because I live and own a business out in the neighborhoods, I would have to confess to a focus that really sees the overwhelming need to stabilize and improve Philly's neighborhoods first before I cry a river about how Center City is not going vertical fast enough, boo hoo!

Last edited by seand : 05-12-2005 at 04:59 PM.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2005, 04:41 PM
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Malloy Malloy is offline
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OT: gio, your PSFS photo set is great. I love that building.

http://phillyskyline.com/bldgs/psfs/index1.htm
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2005, 04:47 PM
niel niel is offline
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Yes, and I really enjoyed the SEPTA "day pass" pics. Really interesting.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2005, 04:51 PM
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seand seand is online now
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The day pass photo tour totally rocked, I agree!

Just checked the PSFS series as well, great work! The PSFS is one of my all time favorite Philly buildings, besides CIty Hall and the PAFA, of course.

Last edited by seand : 05-12-2005 at 04:54 PM.
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