agreed -- i don't understand how anyone would be in disagreement about an apple store being nothing but a great thing for center city. and it IS surprising that we don't have one by now.

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action is the enemy of thought

On the whole Boston is on the top end of the scale on the national "positive" lists. Education,salary,home values. On the otherhand Philadlephia is usually at the top for the"negative" lists. Crime,poverty,HS dropouts.

Downtown Boston is every bit as dynamic as Center City Philly but doesnt have near the surrounding baggage. Zur summed it up pretty good.

I'll always remember reading a blurb in a local publication about a major Manhattan high end retail CEO who came down to Philly to scout a location. The limo stopped somewhere in Center City and the CEO didnt even get out of the limo.Took a quick look around at the demographics, apparently unimpressed, he told the Limo driver to immediately turn around.

Center City is getting better but it still has a long long way to go. Market East which has been discussed at nauseum needs a total transformation from its current bedraggled state into a productive quadrant of the city. More office jobs, more residences and much less discount retail. What they are doing in University City(Cira South with 5,000 new IRS employees, office tower, residential tower) that should have been done in Market East instead.

That blurb was an anecdote in one of Herb Lipson's "Off the Cuff" editorials, the first thing you see when you open the cover of Philadelphia magazine. I read that same editorial. I don't know whether it's advancing age or what, but with rare exceptions, Lipson has little nice to say about much of anything. Read his editorials enough, and you'll be convinced the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

Bostroit, PL. Bostroit.

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Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." --Mark Twain, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court

Fair enough but there is wisdom in his words regarding the challenge of luring high end retail into an economically diverse downtown such as Center City. Most high end retail execs would have done the same which is unfortunate given these 2 facts:

1. Center City Philadlephia has perhaps the best set of bones in this country except NYC and SF.

2. 75% of the high end retail (in the 4th largest US metro economy) does all its shopping in places like King of Prussia and Cherry Hill.


Center City wasnt built to be a low budget shoppers haven.

I would not guess but then you add in..

Cost of rent.
Cost of theft.
Average income of residents (it's not as high as the burbs..)
Average education (also lower than the current burb locations)


While there may be rich...there's a lot of poor students etc. blended in down there.

It has to be the reason... that and the current vendors (Springboard etc)

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It's too tall..! it ruins the feel of the city..! It casts massive shadows..! It's an architectural nightmare..! We should stand together and fight this monstrosity that threatens our homes..! ...but amazingly no one tore down the Eiffel Tower.

or.. why we shouldn't always listen to "neighborhood groups" and critics.

Now that Boston has an Apple Store, and if anything, I think it's a glimpse into what we may get in Philly:



Think of that on Broad and Chestnut...Or Broad and Walnut...

The way Apple is going, We will have one before 2010.

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TAFKATLB(TheArtistFormerlyKnowAsTheLoveBelow)

2010?

In a years time, that will be the the amount per share of Apple's stock.

Wish I'd've waited it out...

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“Man who run in front of car get tired.”

College kids claim they like apple stores. Why would they shop at an apple store when they can go directly to their campus store and pick one up for 15-20% less-or even more if it is a discontinued item? My employee received 50% off of a black macbook because it was the last in the store of the prior generation-and he couldn't be happier. I don't see college kids of any class throwing out a substantial discount just to buy at the apple store. And many more universities are going to begin giving iphones and ipod touches

Oh, and most art students are guaranteed financing for a mac laptop which will be rolled into their student loans somehow-but only through the school.

BTW-college stores give discounts on ipods as well, so when college kids go to McAppleStore they are doing nothing more than internet surfing or picking up the occasional ipod case.

Businesses-won't even touch an apple store unless they are shopping for personal stuff, because inevitably they need someone to set it up, maintain the network, etc.-such as Springboard's 24/7 services. Apple is apparently working on improving this since they are about to go directly against microsoft business technologies, but as of yet they are a bit lacking.

So then were left with personal sales.

So there are some rich people. These people are also noted by national statistics as being some of the most frugal when it comes to consumer spending on electronics. Meanwhile, we are one of the highest for thefts. So does the number one retailer in america really have to put up with this and several other factors just to make their presence for those who wish to get some free services such as the genius bar? Sorry, that doesn't pay the bills.

Finally, there's space. There are only a couple of blocks in philadelphia that would support and apple store.

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Magellan2's prescription:
ATTENTION ALL READERS...
DISCLAIMER: Alesis is a South Street business owner
(keep that in mind when reading his or her responses)

Actually, I'd say the central area of Chicago (the Loop and Near North Side) and central Boston also outrank Center City Philly, which is part of why those areas also have Apple Stores and Center City doesn't.

It's not just the fact that those areas have more affluent residents than Center City but it's also the fact that those areas attract more people from the surroudning suburbs than Center City does. Manhattan, Downtown SF, Central Boston, and Central Chicago are major shopping hubs with not just the unqiue boutiques but also major department stores. As a result, they effectively are the dominant one-stop shopping locations for their respective metro areas. Center City Philly has yet to live up to its full potential in that regard. While there are plenty of boutiques, there's only one department store (Macy's) and it's a half-one at that. Meanwhile, the other cities mentioned above have plenty of department stores. To use Boston as an example since Boston's probably the most comparable to Philly, Central Boston has Macy's, Lord & Taylor, Neiman Marcus, Barney's New York, and Saks Fifth Avenue plus innumerable smaller stores. With that high concentration of stores, it's no wonder that Apple went to Boston to open it's latest flagship store rather than Center City Philly.

Actually I think those stats that show Center City as being the 3rd largest residential downtown in the country after only Manhattan and Central Chicago are kind of skewed. It's all about what you consider "downtown" and I think there's an argument that Central Boston should also include parts of Cambridge (which aren't included despite being just across the river since it's a different city).

Regardless, I think what's more important for the purposes of retail is whether the downtown area serves as a major shopping hub for the region. In Boston, I think central Boston - with 6 or so major department stores - is easily the main shopping hub of its region. For Philly? The hub, for better of worse, is KoP. Apple looks at Central Boston and sees stores like Neiman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, Barney's New York, Lord & Taylor, Louis Vuitton, Sony Style, etc. and it figures that the retail profile of Boston fits what it's aiming after. Hence, it locates its next flagship store right in the middle of it all on Boylston Street.

Meanwhile, they look at Philly, see the stats about 88,000 Center City residents, etc. but look at the retail scene and realize that it plays a secondary role to KoP where they already have a store. They also notice that the only major department store is partial Macy's, that Sony hasn't located a store in CC, that, while CC does have many boutiques, it also is missing many of the ones central Boston, Chicago, NYC, SF, or even Seattle have, and it thus decides to put Center City Philly on its back burner.